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Oct 20 2014 11:34pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 20 2014 10:53pm)
It's mine as well, but I'm not raising a family, and everybody can't live by a college freshman's standards.  Parents can't feed kids ramen every night, can't sew together some rags and call them cloths to save a few bucks, etc. etc.  Any money you could have theoretically not spent is not necessarily disposable.


It is disposable in one sense, because no one can have the best of everything. Meaning you have to decide as a rational consumer whether you are going to invest in good food, good clothing, good housing, good vehicles, etc.

I do agree with you though. However, I normally view disposable income as anything beyond what it takes to survive. Considering you can survive on anything above the minimum wage (unless you have children, in which case you receive aid), most income you make is disposable.

This post was edited by PixileDust on Oct 20 2014 11:35pm
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Oct 21 2014 04:38am
Quote (Pollster @ Oct 20 2014 10:23pm)
Obviously I'm informed of things that actually matter, in this case inarguable legislative history and Congressional record, and not whatever bubble-babble fantasy that you're pushing at any given moment that flies directly in the face of basic, agreed-upon facts.

And, no, your characterization of those examples is completely untrue. Stupid or uninformed people might buy that bullshit because they don't know any better but you're obviously just wasting your time by trying to pass off a patent lie on me. And once again there's the nagging fact that can't be ignored, that no one (who expects to be taken seriously, at least) could credibly claim that any action taken in 2013 could be used to justify behavior that predated it by 7 years and that persisted for the duration of that time.


Clearly not, as you just tried using a lie (again) to make your point. The 4 dates you mentioned did not... you know... ACTUALLY "go nuclear" unlike 2013. And while you spend inordinate amounts of time with your face in Senator's asses, I doubt you would honestly tell the crowd how the use of withholding unanimous consent spiked after the nuclear option went into effect.

Good ol Hack™, out with the usual lie + spin - rinse, repeat.
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Oct 21 2014 05:05am
Quote (PixileDust @ Oct 21 2014 12:34am)
It is disposable in one sense, because no one can have the best of everything. Meaning you have to decide as a rational consumer whether you are going to invest in good food, good clothing, good housing, good vehicles, etc.

I do agree with you though. However, I normally view disposable income as anything beyond what it takes to survive. Considering you can survive on anything above the minimum wage (unless you have children, in which case you receive aid), most income you make is disposable.


You cannot use your own definition of an actual economic term in a conversation about economics.

Disposable income is money left after paying off the cost of living. I should be saving a lot more of mine.
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Oct 21 2014 11:05am
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 21 2014 05:05am)
You cannot use your own definition of an actual economic term in a conversation about economics.

Disposable income is money left after paying off the cost of living.  I should be saving a lot more of mine.


This, and I am fairly certain CPS would take away your children if you had them and only fed them Raman.
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Oct 21 2014 01:45pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 21 2014 03:38am)
Clearly not, as you just tried using a lie (again) to make your point. The 4 dates you mentioned did not... you know... ACTUALLY "go nuclear" unlike 2013. And while you spend inordinate amounts of time with your face in Senator's asses, I doubt you would honestly tell the crowd how the use of withholding unanimous consent spiked after the nuclear option went into effect.

Good ol Hack™, out with the usual lie + spin - rinse, repeat.


Don't bother wasting my time with your sad attempts at projection. They never work. As usual, the only person who is lying, "spinning" anything, and (of course) repeating the same statements over and over in a failed hope that that alone will make them true is yourself.

And yes, they did. You can keep claiming that there's a difference between the several instances listed and the one you're upset about but there isn't one. The creation of the cloture vote (1917), the amending of the cloture threshold from membership to voting and the expansion to further amend (1959), the reduction of the supermajority threshold to 3/5ths (1975), and the removal of post-cloture delay (1979) were all accomplished in the same exact manner procedurally as the 2013 change. The 2013 change was merely the latest instance in an amending process that the Senate had undergone several times prior. It's possible that you simply aren't informed of Senate history, or that you merely don't understand how the body actually works (the likelier of the two, given your demonstration that you don't know what "cloture" is or how it works), but repeating the same baseless claim over and over again gets you nowhere. 200 years of well-documented history isn't going to magically disappear.

Yes, Senate Republicans did withhold unanimous consent more after the rule change in 2013, but they were already regularly withholding it to a historic degree for 6 years prior to that change. That can't rationally be denied at this point, and their behavior since going into the minority can't be explained away just by inaccurately and deceptively characterizing a rule change that occurred years later. You're free to pretend that the behavior that began in 2007 magically just didn't occur until 2013, but even casual Senate observers are going to laugh at that because it's obviously not true.
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Oct 21 2014 03:28pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 21 2014 05:05am)
You cannot use your own definition of an actual economic term in a conversation about economics.



You are thinking of DISCRETIONARY INCOME, not DISPOSABLE INCOME. Thank you for your opinion, but it is false.

Disposable income is money left after paying off the cost of living. I should be saving a lot more of mine.

My other post:

Quote (PixileDust @ Oct 20 2014 10:58pm)
There is an opportunity cost of making less to pay less taxes which would be equal to the decrease in disposable income, as taxes are only a percentage of income. So, doing what you suggested is not rational and thus wouldn't be done.

So, taxes are not disposable income by my reasoning. Instead, Disposable Income = Income - Taxes & Taxes = Income - Disposable Income. Defined by google: https://www.google.com/search?q=define+disposable+income&oq=define+disposable+income


Actually, click the link which goes to the GOOGLE SEARCH in my previous post.

Is a GOOGLE SEARCH now considered my OWN definition?

This post was edited by PixileDust on Oct 21 2014 03:32pm
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Oct 21 2014 03:53pm
Quote (PixileDust @ 21 Oct 2014 21:28)
You are thinking of DISCRETIONARY INCOME, not DISPOSABLE INCOME. Thank you for your opinion, but it is false.

Disposable income is money left after paying off the cost of living.  I should be saving a lot more of mine.

My other post:



Actually, click the link which goes to the GOOGLE SEARCH in my previous post.

Is a GOOGLE SEARCH now considered my OWN definition?


I'm sorry but you're wrong. Disposable income is as Skinned defined it.

This post was edited by Scaly on Oct 21 2014 03:54pm
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Oct 21 2014 04:50pm
Quote (Scaly @ Oct 21 2014 03:53pm)
I'm sorry but you're wrong. Disposable income is as Skinned defined it.



Click on the below link and be mystified.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/DisposableDiscretionary+income

You guys are hilarious. I feel like I am arguing with a group of idiots.



Maybe an economics major (me) shouldn't be arguing with a bunch of idiots (you) about economics on d2jsp.

But thanks bro.

This post was edited by PixileDust on Oct 21 2014 04:51pm
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Oct 21 2014 05:05pm
Quote (Pollster @ Oct 21 2014 02:45pm)
Don't bother wasting my time with your sad attempts at projection. They never work. As usual, the only person who is lying, "spinning" anything, and (of course) repeating the same statements over and over in a failed hope that that alone will make them true is yourself.

And yes, they did. You can keep claiming that there's a difference between the several instances listed and the one you're upset about but there isn't one. The creation of the cloture vote (1917), the amending of the cloture threshold from membership to voting and the expansion to further amend (1959), the reduction of the supermajority threshold to 3/5ths (1975), and the removal of post-cloture delay (1979) were all accomplished in the same exact manner procedurally as the 2013 change. The 2013 change was merely the latest instance in an amending process that the Senate had undergone several times prior. It's possible that you simply aren't informed of Senate history, or that you merely don't understand how the body actually works (the likelier of the two, given your demonstration that you don't know what "cloture" is or how it works), but repeating the same baseless claim over and over again gets you nowhere. 200 years of well-documented history isn't going to magically disappear.

Yes, Senate Republicans did withhold unanimous consent more after the rule change in 2013, but they were already regularly withholding it to a historic degree for 6 years prior to that change. That can't rationally be denied at this point, and their behavior since going into the minority can't be explained away just by inaccurately and deceptively characterizing a rule change that occurred years later. You're free to pretend that the behavior that began in 2007 magically just didn't occur until 2013, but even casual Senate observers are going to laugh at that because it's obviously not true.


I'm not projecting, you are. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+constitutional+option+to+change+Senate+rules+and+procedures%3a+a...-a0129013610

Quote
Byrd made clear that if his rules-change proposal were filibustered, he would invoke the Senate's powers under the U.S. Constitution to force a vote. (5) Byrd never carried out his threat to use the "constitutional option." He never had to. His threat to use it was enough to break the opposition and secure a vote on his rules-change proposal. (6)

Byrd has not been alone, either in his views or his tactics. The constitutional option has been endorsed, explicitly or implicitly, by three U.S. Vice Presidents and three times, by the Senate itself. Moreover, on three occasions prior to 1979, a majority had used the threat of the constitutional option to force a formal change to the Senate Standing Rules.

Senator Thomas J. Walsh (D-MT) first advocated using the constitutional option in 1917. (7) Like Byrd, Walsh reasoned that a newly commenced Senate may disregard the rules established by a prior Senate, including the rules governing filibusters, and adopt new rules in their stead. (8) During this process, Walsh explained, the Senate would revert to the powers set forth in the U.S. Constitution and rely upon traditional parliamentary procedures, which contain procedural mechanisms to control filibusters. (9) Like Byrd's opponents, Walsh's opponents gave way once they realized that Walsh potentially had enough votes to carry out his plan, resulting in the Senate adopting its first formal role limiting debate. (10)

Similarly, in 1959, after over a dozen civil rights bills had been defeated by filibusters, and in 1975, after nearly two decades of rules-change attempts were thwarted, the minority gave way and agreed to amend the Senate cloture rule once it became apparent that a majority of the Senate was prepared to carry out the constitutional option. On all four occasions--1917, 1959, 1975, and 1979--the rules changes may never have been adopted but for the prospect that the constitutional option would be exercised.


Stop fucking lying. Also, the Senate has never, until 2013, limited the contents of the debate like Reid did.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about the years prior to nuclear Harry. That's your own world of butthurt.
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Oct 21 2014 07:22pm
Again, the only person that's lying is yourself.

The Senate very clearly "limited the contents of debate" when it underwent each of the outlined rule changes (and others), though that's obviously quite a stupid characterization of what happened. What do you think happened when the cloture vote is created in 1917? What do you think that means? What do you think happened when the threshold to invoke cloture was lowered, then lowered again, then lowered again, and then lowered again?

Why do you think that when it happened in 2013 that that one time somehow, inexplicably, something different magically occurred even though it had already happened several times prior and it was accomplished in the exact same fashion? You're struggling with the exact same problem that you were the last time you stupidly tried to discuss this when you demonstrated that you simply don't know what "cloture" means and how it works. Until you finally put your face in a book and actually educate yourself about this subject nothing's going to change.

Though it was clear long ago that you don't care about adhering to well-established historical fact. It's obvious why that is.
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