Quote (CPK001 @ Apr 26 2012 12:06am)

1.Oh okay so you have seen that example before. I thought you may have seen it before. It was worth a shot. Anyway the point is that many people will look over the small detail and focus only on the big things. When you say things like looking at the world as a whole it sounded like you are taking a quick scan through and thus missing the small detail.

2.Same again. I just like to know where I am at and who I am dealing with is what I am trying to do. So now I know that you like to look at the whole spectrum but not overlook the small detail, which is what many people do. From this I can assume that you do not make hasty decisions? You like to think out everything and analyse every single bit of information that you get. So when you make an opinionated conclusion that goals are illusions, that wasn't a hasty decision. That was in fact a well thought out conclusion based on all the detail and information that was put in front of you.

3.Yeah like I say, you should be very careful about how you word things. Some people will take what you say to the core. So it may end up as you are both arguing over different things and you can both be right in the end. I do agree that we shouldn't merely dismiss your words entirely. I just like to know how you came to that conclusion as you have. I do it by going through your thought process and how you analyse every single situation and also how you word it. So I can come up with a story in my mind about how you came to the conclusion that you came to. Also, if I am confused as to what you are saying I may assume what you are trying to say but you can correct me if I am wrong. Have you ever heard of the Maturity Continuum? The 5th step is Seek first to understand and then to be understood. So what I am essentially doing is wanting to know everything about you and how you came up to your conclusion. After that I can draw my points based off that. The problem sometimes is that there may be miscommunication and how you are communicating your language to another individual.

4.So you are saying that goals are illusions. I get that. They are shackles and it creates tunnel vision. Now you see tunnel vision as a bad thing. What happens when you see that light at the end of the road and you ignore everything around you that is trying to pull you away from the light? If you have ever ran in Track & Field the coaches say to pick a point far up ahead and focus only on that. I have seen people get distracted by the crowd and they look at the crowd and thus lose their focus. The result is that they fall over and lose the race. Do you know the story of when Jesus walked on water to the boat to the disciples? Peter said that if he really was Jesus, he would let him go out onto the water. Jesus said 'come.' Peter then left the boat and was walking on water. It wasn't until he was focusing on the wind, waves and rain that lost sight and focused on everything that was distracting him from the light at the end of the tunnel. He then began to sink. The point is that tunnel vision may cause you to focus on one point but all around the tunnel vision are distractions, causing you to go off track and fall into the dirt. I am saying that you see tunnel vision as a bad thing, but tunnel vision can also be a good thing.

5.Yeah the world has created a standard of living and fitting in the way it sees. The world sees having all the latest gadgets and having the biggest bank account is the key to happiness. Of course that is just not true. That is why I am not really of the world myself. There are many reasons why I follow the Christian way of life. I see things that the world does not. It is very hard to explain to the world what you are talking about because the world is so used to its ways that it cannot just change.

6.Everyone does have the ability to critically analyse and assess concepts and principles in a fair-minded way. It does take a lot of hard work though. Okay so you claim to be able to remain emotionally out of the equation. Very few people can do that. It is like trying to separate parenting and coaching from your child. Not an easy thing to do by any means. I'm just wondering if this is the case of 'leaving no stone unturned?' As in nobody has ever really ever tackled the fact that having goals can be a 'problem' and you are the first to try?  "I can not stand seeing a problem being unheeded or covered up with excuses and the use of scapegoats." Yeah I'm still wondering whether it is the case of first times for everything. People just naturally try to find their place in life and set goals to achieve it. Yet you come and look at the goal spectrum and you can see how that is a bad thing. You will have to clear that up for me if you may?



7.Why can't you see the good sides of a goal? Yet why do you then go on to talk about how these 'good sides,'which you can't see, can be achieved without a goal? I'm getting really confused here. I'm led to believe that you just contradicted yourself but I'll let you explain your side.

8.So what you are saying is that those who have achieved their goals do get that feeling of satisfaction but it didn't last a long as they originally thought as promised at the beginning? I can understand where you are coming from actually. It is essentially the same as filling that God shaped hole with money, success, popularity, love etc. I guess it all comes down to was the long trek journey worth the reward in the end? If you could start all over again and do it all over again would you? What did I learn from this journey that I could use in my later experiences in life? Do I feel wiser and more humbled now? Goals aren't just goals for the sake of goals, they are also learning experiences.



9.I'll use the example of Soccer here. The aim of the game is to score more goals than your opponents. Now when you score a goal you find out what works. Like a great pass or was it the opposition slipping up? What worked and what didn't? How will we go about getting that goal? We practise corner kicks, throw ins, passing to other players. All this for the sake of scoring that goal. Now lets take the goal scoring part out of the game. What is the point of doing all of that training if we aren't ever going to need it or use it for anything? We would be like sheep without a Shepard. No direction and no guidance. It would not be the case of tunnel vision, it would be the case of pitch blackness because there is no shining light wherever you look.



10.While you may be half true there, you forget to realize the fact that while they are missing out on an incredible amount of experiences, they are already participating in an incredible amount of experience by going for that goal. While those who float along life's arbitrary sequence may manage to experience a plethora of elements but they won't appreciate it as much as those who are going for that goal. While many people who have reached their end goal may only have a short termed feeling of triumph, at the end of the day they feel wiser and more humbled. Was it worth it? What did they learn during the journey? Would they do it all again? etc. Those who never manage to even make a goal won't ever ask themselves that question. Thus they won't learn anything about themselves either.

11.You are wrong when you say you don't have a God. Everyone has a god. They are called idols. You can worship money, career, success, love, popularity, wisdom etc. You can make something a god by making it an idol. In your case it sounds like you are seeking wisdom and knowledge as yours. The problem is that you are putting those things above God almighty himself. That is when the problem arises. Now when you don't believe in God what you are really saying is that "I am the highest authority in my life." There is no higher authority than myself. Christians know that is not true. We do our best to give the glory back to God, the one who created all of those things that you enjoy. We may appreciate the creation but we shouldn't worship the creation. The problem is that when people put themselves as their highest authority i.e. not believing in God, they think that they can save themselves. They are their own saviour. Tell me what exactly you are saving yourself from if you don't believe in life after death in Heaven or Hell? You don't believe in judgement of God almighty, the one who created the Universe and the one who must punish sin. 

12.Um, you do know that having a goal is having direction and destination in the first place right? I am at point A right now and I want to get to point B. Now I need to go this way to get to point B. If there is no point B then you are just wandering about aimlessly and for no good reason. While you may admire the view and get more views of more routes, you won't really appreciate it as much because there is no...purpose to all this is there? You aren't there to study or admire anything. You are doing just that, wandering around aimlessly for no good reason. There is no journey in your life, thus no goal and no end point.

13.A Shepard wants his sheep back in the pen. That is his goal. Otherwise the sheep will wander around aimlessly and perhaps a fox will come and eat one of them. How will the Shepard go about preventing that from happening? By rounding up the sheep and pointing them towards their destination. Now there is no pen for the sheep to gather about. What will be protecting them from the fox, one of the distractions that would cause them to fall off their track? Or better yet think of it like this. A train on the rail road tracks is a one way path. What happens when the tracks suddenly disappear and the train goes off the tracks? The train crashes because it lost its path. The same thing happens to everyone else who loses the light at the end of the tunnel. They will fall off the tracks and will need to somehow get back on track.

14.So you redirected your path to another path. Big deal, everyone is faced with pathway decisions every day. People can change their ways of life as well. So you basically change your path way to the path of learning other people's emotions and predicting their next moves and reactions? You have found what you love and enjoy in life. So how will you prepare and going about getting your end goal to becoming really good at that? My point is that, that path you chose wasn't that unique. It is just another path way that led you to another passion.

15.So... it is not good for mankind to question things and find out answers we haven't got the answers to yet? Like cures for diseases or Astronomy science with the stars and Galaxies? Studying something is a gift that has been given to us from God. Imagine a world with no medicine because we all just accept disease for what it is. Imagine the laziness that would follow through. The deadly sin of Sloth would become the avatar of this world. You are right in saying we cannot pull out random conclusions so the questions left unanswered Science has theories and tests those theories. They can make that unanswered question become answered through tests. That is how it works right?

16.Hah! You said not a single person is getting anywhere in this world. Did I not say earlier that you cannot use the argument of every single person in this whole damn world as a global example of something because it can very easily get shot down? What do you call a baby who grows up into an adult and learns everything in-between? Do you not call that progress? Do you not call breakthroughs progresses? Are you now saying that there is no such thing as progress so we should delete that word from the dictionary? The thing is, when you don't believe in God you don't have a purpose and you don't have a goal. You don't have a hope. It is only by putting all of your hope and faith in Jesus alone will you find your purpose. God always was there. He is before time and space itself. One you put your faith in him all will be revealed in due time.



Edit: Hah! You are impressed by that are you?

Quote (GodlessDeity @ Apr 24 2012 06:50pm)

To be honest, I can not legitimately use that example of looking over small details, because about 5 years ago, I saw that example before and I actually knew exactly where the F's were [Like the tricky ''F'' in ''of''] and how many before I even started. I did get it right the first time, 5 years back though. So not only do I appreciate the frivolous things in life, but I also have a tremendous intuitive memory. The type where you just ''feel'' like you know the answer based off a very faint reminiscence. So you can discredit it.

I know that looking at the world broadly only waters down the details, but trust me, I do not allow myself to over look over these details. I've trained myself to diligently piece together the information that surrounds me; tangible or non-tangible. I do consider the smallest things. You are talking to someone who not only notices the top of a skyscraper, but where it all began from the very bottom. I notice both the highs and lows of reality. I do not pick and choose. I accept and I manage all types of information. I do understand what you mean by half-true, if you were under the impression that I did not appreciate or acknowledge the smallest of details, when I can detest that.

I know. Remember, I do not necessarily speak literally with the communication system mankind socially accepted. I only attempt to express the abstract thoughts that goes on in my mind the best I can. So I have difficulty with frames of time, because the thoughts inside my head have no sense of time. I do mix up my attempts to create a tangible thesis. I only end up mish-mashing it unintentionally, but that does not mean that all of my ideas should be unheeded. Every day I do capitalise on my errors. I know that I continue to say ''all'' when that is possibly the most assinine thing to say if on literal terms. It is like when a girl's boyfriend, fiance or husband says ''You are the most perfect girl in the world'', while other guys out there are saying to their other girlfriends ''You are the most perfect girl in the world''. They should say ''To me'' at the end. Alot of people are trying to express themselves, and that is when people take things too literally. That is why I explain to people to not take anything with more than a grain of salt, because just like when a child says ''I hate you'', they are only limited in what they can express, and only end up exaggerating their emotions and feelings, just as I unintentionally overtly exaggerated my message that revolves around the world as a whole. There ARE some things that EVERY single person do share though. I do apologise if my fair mish-mashing makes things a bit more miscontrued than needed.


The reason why I am able to target the concept of ''goals'' for the entirety of mankind, is because the goal is exactly just that, an illusion. If someone sets a ''goal'', they are creating an illusion. It is no different than harping on the concept of ''fear''. Goals are indeed shackles, and creates tunnel vision. Goals are not necessary for the broader spectrum of what life has to offer. Remember, do not forget how the world was shaped around capitalism and social conditioning. It is things like this that distorts people from understanding my ideas, because I see underneath the layers of what mankind built within our reality.

No. There is no dark forces involved. These ideas are no more than my ability to critically analyze, as well as assess concepts and principles in a fair-minded way. The reason why my ideas are not personal as you presume, is simply because these problems I question every day do not correlate with personal matters. These problems are unhinged by mankind, and they are seperate from bias. These problems are simply problems, and I can not help but situate myself to face these problems and find a solution to said problem. I can not stand seeing a problem being unheeded or covered up with excuses and the use of scapegoats. So essentially, these problems are objective, not subjective. I am able to scrutinise these problems, and I am able to piece together theories and concepts to reflect off the origin and its persistent existence.

I can not see the good sides of a goal, if those good sides can be achieved without a goal, and at a higher rate at that. If a ''goal'' is overall an illusion. The results from said ''goals'' are irrelevant to the ''goal'' itself. It is all mounted on one mere illusion of personal value.


What if there was no need to score? What is the point of ''scoring''? That is exactly what I am saying. Mankind is caught up in this personal value and setting ''goals'' for self-worth, for trials, for ''proving'' what does not need to be proven. You have to look at life without a game plan, to truly feel and understand the simplicity of its beautiful complex.


As far as I've seen. Those who have ''goals'' are missing out on an incredible amount of experiences, while those who float along life's arbitrary sequence manages to experience a plethora of elements. And many people who have reached their goal only found out that the over exaggerated feeling of triumph lasted very short. It is the epitome of desensitising. Of course, there are those who have managed to feel a long bout of triumph, but this triumph; this end result; it has nothing to do with setting the illusion to begin with.

It is not about doing whatever you want. I do not drink. I did not drive a 15 year old up the wall with my ''hormones''. I did not cheat and abuse the ignorance of others. I don't have a God. I am simply a life form that lives as the very thing that it is. I do not second-guess. I do not assume. I create concepts, I see puzzle pieces, and I piece it together. These pieces of the puzzle do fit in place. Mankind needs to stop creating their pieces, when the puzzle is right in front of our faces. This faceless puzzle went asunder after all of the distortion mankind lead on with their superstition and excuses. You seem to think that mankind would be vicious animals, when I am proof that a person can become their own guardian and savior without the help of friends, parents, or some God. By simply disciplining themselves, by simply listening to themselves. Not the crazy ''voices'' that make you feed your darkest of urges, but the silent urges that you have no reason or purpose to do, but you know it is the ''right'' thing to do. You know that it makes the most sense, regardless if you miss out on all of the ''fun'' and ''experimenting'' in life. It is WORTH it, for how silent and subtle it is.

Shaping life is not a pursuit. Our mind's intricacies, such as personalities, emotions, etc. All of this co-exists with this physical world we stand in. It is a remarkable system, that we are overtly complicating. Taking every step is not a goal or a [pursuit], if you have no direction or destination.


It isn't that I ignored it. It is because you are misunderstanding what would happen if mankind had no goal or destination. You also misunderstood that goals and the results from having a goal are two different eggs that happened to form a basket in their own seperate ways.

I can detest the latter half. My life was a calm and collected ocean the moment I chose to redirect my life for the most sensible, rather than what made me ''feel good''. What was ''convenient''. I can determine [not the same as determination...] what someone wants based off their trajectory and agendas as well as their persona, the words they use, how they use them, their reactions, and everything that can reflect off of their character. You can tell alot by a person's view of the world, because most of the time, their view stems from very personal reasons. The actions of mankind has its own native tongue that I can understand for the most part.

Trust me. This 'God' shaped hole is exactly why nothing is truly being understood. It is because goals and excuses have plugged up alot of holes without the holes being legitimately questioned without the need of an answer. It is because mankind always wants an answer, a goal, that makes this world unrealistic and filled with personal garble. Mankind needs to accept the world for what it simply is. You can not just pull out random conclusions to explain our unexplainable world. Both, Science, and Religion are only using speculations. And to be honest, Science is far more linear than religious theories. Yet, we all still have one thing in common. Not a single person is getting anywhere in this world. We are all running in circles inside of our heads, playing in the hands of our reality's illusions. There is no purpose. There is no goal. You created it, just like God was created. These are all illusions to protect your ignorance and your lack of knowledge of a mysterious planet we call Earth and we continue to label with our vague analytic system of loose logic.

Quote (CPK001 @ Apr 26 2012 01:06am)

Oh okay so you have seen that example before. I thought you may have seen it before. It was worth a shot. Anyway the point is that many people will look over the small detail and focus only on the big things. When you say things like looking at the world as a whole it sounded like you are taking a quick scan through and thus missing the small detail.

Same again. I just like to know where I am at and who I am dealing with is what I am trying to do. So now I know that you like to look at the whole spectrum but not overlook the small detail, which is what many people do. From this I can assume that you do not make hasty decisions? You like to think out everything and analyse every single bit of information that you get. So when you make an opinionated conclusion that goals are illusions, that wasn't a hasty decision. That was in fact a well thought out conclusion based on all the detail and information that was put in front of you.

Yeah like I say, you should be very careful about how you word things. Some people will take what you say to the core. So it may end up as you are both arguing over different things and you can both be right in the end. I do agree that we shouldn't merely dismiss your words entirely. I just like to know how you came to that conclusion as you have. I do it by going through your thought process and how you analyse every single situation and also how you word it. So I can come up with a story in my mind about how you came to the conclusion that you came to. Also, if I am confused as to what you are saying I may assume what you are trying to say but you can correct me if I am wrong. Have you ever heard of the Maturity Continuum? The 5th step is Seek first to understand and then to be understood. So what I am essentially doing is wanting to know everything about you and how you came up to your conclusion. After that I can draw my points based off that. The problem sometimes is that there may be miscommunication and how you are communicating your language to another individual.

So you are saying that goals are illusions. I get that. They are shackles and it creates tunnel vision. Now you see tunnel vision as a bad thing. What happens when you see that light at the end of the road and you ignore everything around you that is trying to pull you away from the light? If you have ever ran in Track & Field the coaches say to pick a point far up ahead and focus only on that. I have seen people get distracted by the crowd and they look at the crowd and thus lose their focus. The result is that they fall over and lose the race. Do you know the story of when Jesus walked on water to the boat to the disciples? Peter said that if he really was Jesus, he would let him go out onto the water. Jesus said 'come.' Peter then left the boat and was walking on water. It wasn't until he was focusing on the wind, waves and rain that lost sight and focused on everything that was distracting him from the light at the end of the tunnel. He then began to sink. The point is that tunnel vision may cause you to focus on one point but all around the tunnel vision are distractions, causing you to go off track and fall into the dirt. I am saying that you see tunnel vision as a bad thing, but tunnel vision can also be a good thing.

Yeah the world has created a standard of living and fitting in the way it sees. The world sees having all the latest gadgets and having the biggest bank account is the key to happiness. Of course that is just not true. That is why I am not really of the world myself. There are many reasons why I follow the Christian way of life. I see things that the world does not. It is very hard to explain to the world what you are talking about because the world is so used to its ways that it cannot just change.

Everyone does have the ability to critically analyse and assess concepts and principles in a fair-minded way. It does take a lot of hard work though. Okay so you claim to be able to remain emotionally out of the equation. Very few people can do that. It is like trying to separate parenting and coaching from your child. Not an easy thing to do by any means. I'm just wondering if this is the case of 'leaving no stone unturned?' As in nobody has ever really ever tackled the fact that having goals can be a 'problem' and you are the first to try?  "I can not stand seeing a problem being unheeded or covered up with excuses and the use of scapegoats." Yeah I'm still wondering whether it is the case of first times for everything. People just naturally try to find their place in life and set goals to achieve it. Yet you come and look at the goal spectrum and you can see how that is a bad thing. You will have to clear that up for me if you may?



Why can't you see the good sides of a goal? Yet why do you then go on to talk about how these 'good sides,'which you can't see, can be achieved without a goal? I'm getting really confused here. I'm led to believe that you just contradicted yourself but I'll let you explain your side.

So what you are saying is that those who have achieved their goals do get that feeling of satisfaction but it didn't last a long as they originally thought as promised at the beginning? I can understand where you are coming from actually. It is essentially the same as filling that God shaped hole with money, success, popularity, love etc. I guess it all comes down to was the long trek journey worth the reward in the end? If you could start all over again and do it all over again would you? What did I learn from this journey that I could use in my later experiences in life? Do I feel wiser and more humbled now? Goals aren't just goals for the sake of goals, they are also learning experiences.



I'll use the example of Soccer here. The aim of the game is to score more goals than your opponents. Now when you score a goal you find out what works. Like a great pass or was it the opposition slipping up? What worked and what didn't? How will we go about getting that goal? We practise corner kicks, throw ins, passing to other players. All this for the sake of scoring that goal. Now lets take the goal scoring part out of the game. What is the point of doing all of that training if we aren't ever going to need it or use it for anything? We would be like sheep without a Shepard. No direction and no guidance. It would not be the case of tunnel vision, it would be the case of pitch blackness because there is no shining light wherever you look.



While you may be half true there, you forget to realize the fact that while they are missing out on an incredible amount of experiences, they are already participating in an incredible amount of experience by going for that goal. While those who float along life's arbitrary sequence may manage to experience a plethora of elements but they won't appreciate it as much as those who are going for that goal. While many people who have reached their end goal may only have a short termed feeling of triumph, at the end of the day they feel wiser and more humbled. Was it worth it? What did they learn during the journey? Would they do it all again? etc. Those who never manage to even make a goal won't ever ask themselves that question. Thus they won't learn anything about themselves either.

You are wrong when you say you don't have a God. Everyone has a god. They are called idols. You can worship money, career, success, love, popularity, wisdom etc. You can make something a god by making it an idol. In your case it sounds like you are seeking wisdom and knowledge as yours. The problem is that you are putting those things above God almighty himself. That is when the problem arises. Now when you don't believe in God what you are really saying is that "I am the highest authority in my life." There is no higher authority than myself. Christians know that is not true. We do our best to give the glory back to God, the one who created all of those things that you enjoy. We may appreciate the creation but we shouldn't worship the creation. The problem is that when people put themselves as their highest authority i.e. not believing in God, they think that they can save themselves. They are their own saviour. Tell me what exactly you are saving yourself from if you don't believe in life after death in Heaven or Hell? You don't believe in judgement of God almighty, the one who created the Universe and the one who must punish sin. 

Um, you do know that having a goal is having direction and destination in the first place right? I am at point A right now and I want to get to point B. Now I need to go this way to get to point B. If there is no point B then you are just wandering about aimlessly and for no good reason. While you may admire the view and get more views of more routes, you won't really appreciate it as much because there is no...purpose to all this is there? You aren't there to study or admire anything. You are doing just that, wandering around aimlessly for no good reason. There is no journey in your life, thus no goal and no end point.

A Shepard wants his sheep back in the pen. That is his goal. Otherwise the sheep will wander around aimlessly and perhaps a fox will come and eat one of them. How will the Shepard go about preventing that from happening? By rounding up the sheep and pointing them towards their destination. Now there is no pen for the sheep to gather about. What will be protecting them from the fox, one of the distractions that would cause them to fall off their track? Or better yet think of it like this. A train on the rail road tracks is a one way path. What happens when the tracks suddenly disappear and the train goes off the tracks? The train crashes because it lost its path. The same thing happens to everyone else who loses the light at the end of the tunnel. They will fall off the tracks and will need to somehow get back on track.

So you redirected your path to another path. Big deal, everyone is faced with pathway decisions every day. People can change their ways of life as well. So you basically change your path way to the path of learning other people's emotions and predicting their next moves and reactions? You have found what you love and enjoy in life. So how will you prepare and going about getting your end goal to becoming really good at that? My point is that, that path you chose wasn't that unique. It is just another path way that led you to another passion.

So... it is not good for mankind to question things and find out answers we haven't got the answers to yet? Like cures for diseases or Astronomy science with the stars and Galaxies? Studying something is a gift that has been given to us from God. Imagine a world with no medicine because we all just accept disease for what it is. Imagine the laziness that would follow through. The deadly sin of Sloth would become the avatar of this world. You are right in saying we cannot pull out random conclusions so the questions left unanswered Science has theories and tests those theories. They can make that unanswered question become answered through tests. That is how it works right?

Hah! You said not a single person is getting anywhere in this world. Did I not say earlier that you cannot use the argument of every single person in this whole damn world as a global example of something because it can very easily get shot down? What do you call a baby who grows up into an adult and learns everything in-between? Do you not call that progress? Do you not call breakthroughs progresses? Are you now saying that there is no such thing as progress so we should delete that word from the dictionary? The thing is, when you don't believe in God you don't have a purpose and you don't have a goal. You don't have a hope. It is only by putting all of your hope and faith in Jesus alone will you find your purpose. God always was there. He is before time and space itself. One you put your faith in him all will be revealed in due time.



Edit: Hah! You are impressed by that are you?

Quote (xXAn0nym0usXx @ 26 Apr 2012 10:34)

tldr......

Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Apr 26 2012 11:36am)

Thank you for your contribution.  I was just looking at that post and thinking "Yes, but will xXAn0nym0usXx read all of this?  I hope he informs us soon."

Quote (CPK002 @ Apr 26 2012 03:55pm)

1. I figured.

2. You seem to understand my approach. I rarely see such a feat. Because, as you've said, people simply take the things I say the wrong way.

3. Of course. I make sure to capitalise on my weaknesses any chance I get. I also understand that my voice is useless if it can't be received cohesively.

4. The situation of someone going towards a destination and being distracted are two elements of interest. The first element  [Goal-oreinted means] is what correlates with this discussion, whilst the distraction is a seperate cup of tea. Of course distraction is going to dismantle their goal. I am not dismantled by my surroundings, and I seem to always get things done. Thus your example is irrelevant and able to be detested. Try a different example, perhaps? Not intending to be rude. Just setting common grounds.

5. The things you see are in your head, while the things I see are not in my head, but in front of our every day faces. Of course, you will not understand this, being religious and all.

6. It is like I told my father. A parent is either subjective or objective. Rarely are they both, and rarely do they use multiple layers of personality to individually approach different situations. For an example, I can be disppointed in my brother, and I can clearly show him my disappointment, but I also still talk to him and I do not shut him out. I am there, but I do not hide my impression of him, nor do I blow the situation out of proportion, because I understand the difficulties of our reality and how much hindrance is involved in human communication.

7. The ''good'' side was referencing the results from a goal. I was attempting to explain that the goal itself is the illusion and it does not have any connection with the results whatsoever. It is two entirely different happenings. Setting a goal does not have any relevance to what you receive after reaching a goal. As the results of said goal become a branched illusion from the core illusion [goal]. That ''triumph'' feeling is inside your head. It is an illusion that follows by your other illusion [proving one's self].

8. You seem to really understand where I'm coming from, and yes. It is vastly similar, if not the same illusion as that god-shaped hole. The illusion of prevailing is no different than those whom seek for a rush or a sense of life or enlightenment out of this insipid reality of ours. Mankind tends to want a more colourful rainbow, so they create their own brighter rainbows out of false perception. Generally, they make more out of the world than it actually provides for their own excessive needs.

9.. If you also recall, there have been prodigies out there who simply were just good at what they do. They enjoyed what they did. It wasn't a goal to them. It is what they did. Just as much as my passion for understanding and questioning the world I stand in.

10. The experience is false. It was created by an illusion for the goal illusion. It is not real. When reality comes back, when you finally reached the goal, you will be no different than you were before setting the goal, and before reaching the goal. It is all a psyche. Like when you play video games while you are sick. It keeps your mind off of reality, and its unbias treachery. Focusing on a goal is narrow-minded, and it only expresses that you are not strong enough to get things done without psyching yourself and sugar-coating the road ahead.

11. Let me put this as bluntly as I can, without being rude. There. Is. No. God.

12. A wise man is his own compass. A compass that is never used, or needed. For the wise man has no need for a destination or a goal. Every experience is opened in one subtle exploration with no intended ending.

13. That is not a goal, that is applying reason unto a conflicting situation. The train tracks is just as irrelevant as your example of someone being distracted by the crowd. You forget, the goal comes from the immaterial information of the mind. You are using physical examples to explain immaterial values of our mind.

14. I am on no path. There is no path. Life is what you make of it. There is absolutely no sign, no path, no road. There is no sense of direction. All I see, is a world filled with endless opportunities that all can't be lived in anyone's life time. There is no reason to pick and choose. Let life unravel itself.

15. An analytical process is still a loosely analyzed process. Science is built on the analysis of this world's already pre-existent functions. Imagine those who dare to walk on X territory. They are only second-guessing with very little to work with, a.k.a the mysteries of our body's functions. Of course they have discovered enough to be essentially accurated -- after a boat load of trial and error [as well as guinea pigs, rather you deny that or not] -- they are still using alot of vague and scarce information to structurise an element of an idea. Also, please, for the sake of this discussion, leave your vague assertions of God out of your examples. Please, and thank you.

16. I feel as though you disagree based off your religious beliefs. Which is only going to stilt this discussion. And, again. Stop with the God nonsense, because I wholeheartedly do not get dragged down by false information that I inflate with wild assertions. You also forgot what I said as well, I also said ''There ARE times where EVERY single person share a common trait though.'' In this case, every SINGLE person is going around in circles in life. Everyone is, because life is simply about circles that we try to break with illusions. The thing is, there are many who deny this.

Quote (CPK001 @ Apr 26 2012 10:24pm)

You may have figured but I wanted to hear it from you.

Like I said Seek first to understand and then to be understood. I can then see where you went wrong in all this otherwise there will be no progress to be made.

Keep working on that then. Not many people will go deeper into investigation to see what you really mean.

So you want to only focus on the goal itself and not the parts that attribute to goals? You basically see the light at the end of the tunnel is an illusion and you would rather see everything left, right and centre. You do call that 'freelancing' as in you aren't bound by your goals. You see everything as options yet you don't want to capitalize on any of those options, you just want to leave them open forever and never go for anything. Let's now choose something at KFC whilst looking at the menu. There is a lot to choose from isn't there? Yet you would rather keep on looking at everything and never actually order anything, whilst that trip is essentially meaningless. Every other person would look at that big bucket of chicken and go for that. The thing is, they did see all of their options before hand and they decided to go for that particular one.

Last I checked we both see the same sun. I can see everything that you can see. We only interpret things differently, which is why you should listen to other people's ideas as they may bring something to your attention that you would originally never have thought of.

Once again it comes down to communication and ever-deadly, motives. You can see someone do the wrong thing and you intend to go and talk to them about what they just did. Now you can yell at them and call them worthless and scum of the Earth or you can do the same thing in the loving way. You can hold him accountable. There are many ways to communicate the same message across. If you don't like the music that somebody is listening to you can say to them "Your taste in music sucks." Or you can say "I don't like that genre of music." Christians learn to hold each other accountable yet in a loving way. Thus keeping emotionally out of the situation.

I see what is really going on here. You are only focusing on the goal itself and ignoring all the other aspects of having a goal. You have tunnel vision right now. You don't want to branch out and look at all the aspects that come from having a goal. You only want to focus on the goal oriented part of having a goal in the first place. Your goal, so to speak, is to only focus on the goal aspect part of having a goal in the first place. Consider the following animation.

O
l <-- This is GodlessDeity.
l

O
l---------------------[G]----------------------
l

G = Goal

GodlessDeity is only focusing on one aspect of having a goal and not taking into consideration the aspects that come along with having a goal.  Like how an impatient person rushes through a RPG game while ignoring the story to finish the game... GodlessDeity will not be able to see the sidelines that are beyond the goal. GodlessDeity will be very narrow-minded, and their pursuit will be dull.

O
l <--This is CPK001
l

O ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CPK001 is able to see more than one side of the spectrum, because there is no focusing involved, which is a grand focus on its own terms. It is like when a camera in a movie blurrs out the background to focus on a specific character. That is the exact same thing focusing on the goal aspect alone does to a person. It creats a blind side, for an illusion that is only valuable based off your personal disposition -- which is not, at all, that reliable.

So yeah we do agree on one thing at least. Is when people make goals for the motives of making a name for themselves to brag for others right? You and I both know that the glory belongs to God and only him. Is this the essential core of your argument? The motives that people have for having a goal? You should be challenging their motives instead and not having a goal in the first place.

If there were some Prodigies out there that were good at what they do, then they are only doing that one thing right? They aren't technically seeing everything the way it is. They are naturally good at what they do and are doing just that. They aren't looking for other options to leave them open and not pursue them. They made their choice and there will be goals that lie out from that.

If the experience from having a goal is false, what makes not having a goal in the first place's experience true? What is the definition of a false experience and true experience? I have never, ever heard of such a thing. Last I checked every single journey I've been on with a purpose has been real.

You may say there is no God. What I see is "I am the highest authority figure in my own life. There is no consequence for my actions when I die so I can do whatever I want and be as bad as I want to be." If you did know that there is a creator you wouldn't be thinking like that.

So if we put that wise man in the desert and he wants to find civilization or shelter, he won't use his compass? He is better off wandering the desert willy nilly and not have a plan to escape from the desert. Even though he has the tools to escape, he shall not use them right? Very logical right there isn't it?

I'll expand on that story. The Shepard is doing thatso he can win the grand prize of being a Shepard.He is in a competition and he wants to win. That is his goal. His goal from when he was young was to win the grand prize of a Shepard competition. Now his goal is within his reach!

You are driving in a car and you don't want to follow the road. You would rather drive on the side and risk running into trees or guard rails. That is essentially what you are saying. The only time I would agree that, that is the case is if you were driving a tank in the army. Even so they would choose flat terrain that the tanks can travel through. They wouldn't just travel wherever they wanted because they would get into trouble. Same principle applies to life decisions and staying on track. Not getting sidetracked when it all comes down to it.

Then what isn't considered a loosely analysed process in your mind? The way it works is just fine. You have to come up with a theory before testing it right? I honestly don't know why you care so much about studying the Earth and finding out more as opposed to accepting it for what it is. That is essentially the point of Science right? Without Science there is no technology. There is no discovery of new minerals or substances. Remember the discovery of fire or the invention of the wheel? Look at how we use both of those two ideas now. By your standards we should have never evolved from cavemen.

I feel as though you disagree based off your un-religious beliefs. Which is only going to stilt this discussion. Stop with the God being nonsense, nonsense, because I wholeheartedly do not get dragged down by false information that I inflate with wild assertions. You are only saying that everything is a cycle because you don't believe in God. Not everyone is, because life is simply NOT about circles that we try to break with illusions. The thing is, there are many who deny this.

Quote (Skinned @ Apr 27 2012 01:29pm)

This post delivered.  I wish there was a +1 feature.  I'd donate if I had FG, twice, once for quoting yourself, and again for talking about yourself in third person.
At first I was like tl:dr but then I seen the text illustration and was like "hell naw" and had to read it.

A+.

Quote (CPK001 @ Apr 27 2012 06:40am)

No, CPK002 is not me.

Quote (CPK001 @ Apr 27 2012 07:40am)

No, CPK002 is not me.