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Apr 11 2012 06:00pm
Quote (sylvannos @ Apr 11 2012 06:44pm)
That should belong in its own class, such as history of world religion or history of science or what have you. However, biology should stay biology. We don't teach physics in biology, nor do we make kids read the Origin of Species. I get what you're saying (things have to be done gradually), but teaching ID in biology will undermine the entire subject. There is no point in teaching it at that point.


But I'm not teaching ID. I'm just saying that it exists. :?
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Apr 11 2012 06:11pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ 12 Apr 2012 11:36)
To clarify, this clause that I've been talking about would be one line that would be used ONCE before the class started on evolution. Just once.





Honestly, I think the disciplines should be more interrelated than they are now. While I don't think we should be learning everything about literature in science or something, I do think it can be appropriate to teach the histories of theories sometimes. In my view, the sentences I'm advocating would be something along those lines.


The sentences you're advocating can be arrived at without putting them in science class. Any religious person in the science class would try and reconcile their beliefs with that kind of logic without prompting. Even the Pope has.

What it comes down to is: Science class teaches empiricism:

"Empiricism in the philosophy of science emphasizes evidence, especially as discovered in experiments. It is a fundamental part of the scientific method that all hypotheses and theories must be tested against observations of the natural world rather than resting solely on a priori reasoning, intuition, or revelation."

Intelligent design is not supported by the evidence. It is taken on faith in God (find an atheist ID proponent). Faith is a rejection of empiricism.

Empiricism and faith, as two methods of arriving at truth, are incompatible. Scientific beliefs and religious beliefs CAN coexist where they don't conflict, but the basis for those beliefs fundamentally CANNOT. Which is why intelligent design, and other religious theories, cannot be covered in a science classroom unless they conform to the same rigorous standard of science as any other theory. ID does not belong in the science classroom any more than atheist philosophy belongs in a church sermon. Could you imagine a pastor starting every sermon with a disclaimer along the lines of: "Well, some people don't believe that faith is a good method for arriving at truth so they think this is all rubbish. Bear this in mind."

Notice everything I said is independent of the truth of ID, or the validity of fideism vs empiricism. They just fundamentally don't belong together.

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Apr 11 2012 11:50pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ Apr 11 2012 03:31pm)
Honestly, I've never heard of Behe before in my life, and I doubt most other people have either. When people define intelligent design, they all have a different idea in their head. In other words, since intelligent design is really tied to religion, there is no one true definition of it.



Prove to me that God doesn't exist with scientific evidence that doesn't involve refuting the Abrahamic writings.



I don't care how many definitions of intelligent design people have made. If you're going to put intelligent design in a science class it has to have substance besides "WELP GOD DID IT". And the only one that has substance beyond that is Behe's intelligent design.

That's the whole point. God can't be proven to exist, neither disproven to exist, and therefore it's wholly unscientific and doesn't belong in a science classroom. Besides, the burden of proof is on you to prove god exists, not on me to disprove the existence of god.


This post was edited by AEtheric on Apr 11 2012 11:50pm
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Apr 12 2012 11:50am
this isn't education, it is however a great way to spread idiocy ~ liberty university
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Apr 12 2012 12:51pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Apr 12 2012 12:50pm)
this isn't education, it is however a great way to spread idiocy ~ liberty university


Well, since you put it that way, I guess liberty should be squelched, because people might not do what I think they should do with it. Makes perfect sense.
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Apr 12 2012 12:53pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 12 2012 01:51pm)
Well, since you put it that way, I guess liberty should be squelched, because people might not do what I think they should do with it. Makes perfect sense.


The right has hijacked the word liberty.
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Apr 12 2012 12:57pm
the difference between allowing and mandating is quite different


I know this because I went to a private school for most of my life.. I don't understand the paranoia of merely allowing a public school to run a little bit more like a private school



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Apr 12 2012 12:57pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 12 2012 01:53pm)
The right has hijacked the word liberty.


Does it make what I've insinuated any less true? Liberty must of right include the right to be stupid.
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Apr 12 2012 01:01pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 12 2012 11:53am)
The right has hijacked the word liberty.


they haven't hijacked it.. they've sabotaged it


literally putting the government in charge of our bodies, whether it be sex, birth control, or the very things we choose to put in our bodies


then there's the whole patriot act thing.....
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Apr 12 2012 04:23pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 12 2012 12:53pm)
The right has hijacked the word liberty.


They've also hijacked stupidity...
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