This is mostly written for myself as a sort of
information dump of all the things I've been working on for a while now. It's mostly so I can link it from my profile but figured I might share it with you guys in case anyone cares.
original thread :
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=36210230&f=272original repost :
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=36271128&f=272Fixes
- added 1,13
- added 1,14
- added Table of Contents
- made it more organized and easier to read
- Inserted new image for monsters
- fixed grammar and syntax errors
- fixed tondor222 name
to do
- complete bestiary
Probably won't update this for a while unless some other subject comes up that I feel I can address.
Table of Contents1,0 Thoughts on Str/Dex ratios1,1 There is no magic number of dexterity
1,2 Your dexterity should not depend on your weapon type
1,3 Catacombs = Less dexterity, Arena = more dexterity
1,4 Build your character with a purpose, the type of armor you wear should affect your str/dex ratio (more true in catacombs).
1,5 The CS multiplier is calculated from your dexterity compared to the monsters dexterity, not the difference in dexterity between the two.
1,6 Maximize the later levels (55-71)
1,7 relation vit vs str/dex
1,8 rare scenarios where pure dex is better
1,9 Enhanced Effect armors vs str/dex armors
1,10 A tank in catacombs
1,11 Str/dex conclusions
1,12 Melee oriented Math formulas
1,13 Heavy weapons vs normal weapons
1,14 Str = EE, stat placement build
2,0 Casting2,1 Offensive casting with charm in acc.slot
2,2 A mathematical approach at the hybrid healer
3,0 Bestiary3,1 Monster name spawns
3,2 Images of monsters that can spawn
3,3 prefixes (X)
3,4 anixes (Y)
3,5 suffixes (Z)
4,0 Random Thoughts about Hardcore5,0 Credits
Dexterity, strenght and how they work together.1,0 Thoughts on Str/Dex ratiosOk this is probably the section with the most deductions and most amount of variability of different opinions. However, I spent an absurd amount of time trying to understand and figure out Str/Dex ratios and this is what I've found out. I'll also include some basic tree graphic type charts to provide guidance on how to stat your character if you decide to follow my point of view.
1,1 There is no magic number of dexterityThis is one of the first assumptions I made while starting to get interested in the workings of Str and Dex. The reasonings behind this are quite simple. Your total damage comes from both Str/Dex at a certain ratio. The two numbers almost certainly have some type of multiplicative values however, how they vary with each other is unknown. The important thing to know though is that they do vary with each other and thats why a 120 dex - 70 str won't work as well as a 120 str - 70 dex ratio. Despite both builds having the same amount of stats invested in melee oriented stats when multiplied together the damage output will generally be smaller.
1,2 Your dexterity should not depend on your weapon typeOk this one is a bit more complicated and the reasoning behind it is mainly mathematic. This said, statements such as
more dex for swords are completely irrelevant. If anything axes would be slightly more beneficed from dexterity bonuses. Basically, the people saying this generally say stuff like, yeah but the higher end values get bigger crits so dexterity is more important. However this is also true for lower end values and when you look at the averages of all the weapons you see that they deal the same average damage so your crits will be boosted, in average, by the same amount of damage. It's important to note that because low end hits on a sword won't get entirely negated by monsters defense (can't have negative values, it stops at 0) swords will deal a higher average damage in theory. This said, critical strikes ignore defense so that point doesn't make any sense with dexterity and critical strikes when it comes to weapon choices.
The biggest part of the logic behind this can be found here :
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=31115563&f=2721,3 Catacombs = Less dexterity, Arena = more dexterityThe logic behind this one is slightly more complicated yet still very approachable. Basically the argument goes as follow. Dexterity ignores monsters defense. Arena monsters have higher average defense then catacomb monsters. Therefore dexterity should be more efficient in arena then in catacombs. However just for the sake of being thorough it's important to keep some things into consideration. The critical strike multiplier is also affected by the amount of monsters dexterity compared to your own dexterity. This would then mean critical strikes would potentially do more damage on average in catacombs then in the arena. However, we would need to evaluate whether the added bonuses from higher critical strikes outweigh, equal, or under weigh the bonuses from the totaled damage potentially lost due to the monsters defense. Due to lack of information we are currently unable to calculate this. I do believe though that the bonuses are highly under weighed. Still, this point is debatable.
More information on this can be found here :
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=31419519&f=2721,4 Build your character with a purpose, the type of armor you wear should affect your str/dex ratio (more true in catacombs).Almost everyone I've talked to strongly disagrees with this point however here goes my reasoning. For the best possibly efficiency you should always look to maximize your characters positive points while not concentrating on it's negative points. Your character should have a purpose. As we all know Dexterity has offensive as well as defensive properties. Therefore if you are getting attacked less often, you have less chances of getting CS'd so you will get less of a damage reduction bonus from dexterity. Lets say your using a robe oriented melee character in catacombs. You will be sitting in the back row getting hit less often, the defensive bonuses from dexterity are being minimized. If you were using a heavy armor ( Enhanced Effect armor even) character sitting in the front row and tanking the damage your primary role would be to absorb the damage and not necessarily dish out the heavy damage. The robed characters could take care of that. It has also been shown that generally, point for point, str will yield a higher damage output then dexterity. There are some exceptions to this that I'll talk about later.
More information on this can be found here :
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=31286038&f=272 /
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=31446921&f=272 /
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=31419519&f=2721,5 The CS multiplier is calculated from your dexterity compared to the monsters dexterity, not the difference in dexterity between the two.This point I personally tested with the help of tondor222. Basically what this means is that the CS multiplier will not be the same if you have 90 dexterity with a 20 dexterity difference of the monster then if you have 120 dexterity with a 20 dexterity difference of the monster. This information isn't extremely useful, however it did prevent us from calculating experimental values (it would still have been possible but would have required easily 20-30x more work so I decided to not continue the testing). Just some fun information to note I guess.
1,6 Maximize the later levels (55-71)Pretty straightforward to have the fastest climbs you want to maximize the speed of the parts that are the slowest, the limiting factor. In this case it's the later levels. Thats why I believe your build should be oriented to excel at levels 55-71. I will be using level 65 as my target (10 initial stats + 65 additional stats + x amount of stats from gear = 75 stats + x amount from gear)
1,7 relation vit vs str/dexWhen you first start your melee character you are confronted with a dilemma. Do you want your first 10 stats points to go into str/dex or into vitality. I have personally come to enjoy putting the first 10 stat points of the character into vitality. The reason why this question is only important to us in the beginning is that you get +1 life per level per hard point of vitality invested and a +2 life for every hard point in vitality invested (only once). This means that adding points into vitality will be the most cost effective at the beginning of your climb. Most people decide to not put points into vitality because most melee characters already have a high starting amount of vitality and they find it unnecessary to add any more. It's more valuable to them to invest in a stat that will increase their damage output, increasing their killing speed. However, investing the first 10 stat points into vitality will give you a 22% increase if life compared to only about 5% increase in damage. The 5% increase in damage depends on how much str/dex you get from your gear. The higher the amount the lower the damage % increase you get. You have to ask yourself the question, is 5% more damage > 22% more life? I have found that yes it is, especially that I play HC the extra vitality always enables me to get at least 1 kill per regen. If your gear isn't top of the end and you are having trouble killing monsters in arena at higher levels, I recommend you try putting your first 10 points into vitality. Not anymore then 10 though.
It's also important to note that since you will have higher life, your regens will be longer and your kills will be slower, only slightly slower but still. As far as getting vitality as a main stat on a charm/armor I think it's a horrible idea. A point of vitality adds less then 1EE% to your armor. It would be much more cost effective to simply get EE on your armor or even an offensive stat instead of vitality. I would not reccomend this in any way and can't see any scenarios where it would be more beneficial then str/ee/dex.
1,8 rare scenarios where pure dex is betterIn the odd scenario that your weapons damage is being mostly absorbed by the monsters defense, it would be better to go all dexterity. This is because dexterity ignores defense and your combined damage from CS would be higher then your combined damage from normal attacks. This is probably why some people report to be having more success with very high dex builds then very str. Still I remain skeptical of exactly how useful this is as even a basic tier level weapon with no Enhanced Effect should deal enough damage to outweigh this effect if you invested a decent amount of stat points into str, or at least thats what I believe. Feel free to prove me wrong
1,9 Enhanced Effect armors vs str/dex armorsI believe that at lower budget levels Enhanced Effect armors will work better then str/dex armors as far as killing in arena goes. This is mainly because there is a very present effect of
overkill that can be achieved with Enhanced Effect armors. If you are using a plate mail I wouldn't recommend getting more then 140 EE and no more then 160 EE on a chain mail tier 14. This is because monsters will deal you damage in three ways. Magical, physical, CS. Your EE armor will only reduce the physical damage you eat and at those levels of EE you can already nullify almost all of that damage. Getting much more then that amount of EE would simply be an overkill and would be wasted. This is purely my guess but I would have to say that 140 EE plate = 35-40 str plate as far as killing efficiency goes. If your able to purchase plates with more then 40 str I think you'll get faster levels then going to EE route. The opposite is also true.
Again, it's important to keep into consideration that if your getting EE as a stat on your armor if means your going to be killing slower and it might translate into slower levels. It can very well be faster to have a slightly lower MCC but you are killing the monsters and regening faster then using the Enhanced effect route. If your going to choose to go catacombs both options are viable and very useful.
1,10 A tank in catacombsThis is slightly off topic but I fits nicely in this section I think. If ever you decide that you want to make a pure tank in catacombs wearing an EE armor and having high dexterity will not be enough. You will also need to get intelligence. For your tank to be the best it can be you'll need high EE, dex and int (about 100 in each should do). If you do get this though you'll quickly realize that you have a low amount of points left to distribute into str and it might be a better option to be a healer instead of a damage dealer. HM on weapon, EE on armor, HM on charm, EE on acc.charm. I haven't personally tested this though. Your character would be extremely good at tanking hits, allowing your catacomb group to last longer. However you will be unable to solo and you won't have the insane high heals of a normal healer.
1,11 Str/dex conclusionsOk now I'm apply the following information and logic to give what I believe would be good guidelines to start your melee journey. However, let me strongly emphasize that these should not be taken as stone and I hope you question these results and figure out your own builds and do your own tests much like I and others have
Ok, before deciding how much stat points you want to invest in str and dex you need to answer the following questions. Since not all the characters have the same amount of base str + dex starting stats this will just give a ballpark range of a ratio I'd recommend you get.
Do I want to play mainly catacombs or mainly arena?
Will I be wearing an EE heavy armor? Do I want my role to be to tank or deal damage?
How much stats will I be getting from my gear?
Again, these are guidelines and my opinions. I encourage you to disagree (and post why you disagree).
1,12 Melee oriented Math formulas
Here are also some random formulas you guys might like, their not 100% accurate (I tested them) but still the best things I've found so far.
Quote
Ladder Slasher melee damage formula:
Chance of critical hit = attacker's dexterity / (500 + attacker's dexterity) + 0.2 per point of critical strike
CritMultiplier = 200% + 1% per point of attacker's dexterity - 1% per point of defender's dexterity
Maximum CritMultiplier = 300% dmg, Minimum critmultiplier = 100% dmg
Normal attack damage = (0.95+ attacker's strength / 100) x base weapon damage - defense
Critical hit damage = (0.95 + attacker's strength / 100) x base weapon damage x CritMultiplier
* base weapon damage is weapon damage shown with 0 strength, average damage = 5.5 x weapon tier
Ladder Slasher magic damage formula:
MagicDamageAmp = 100% + 0.5% per point of attacker's intelligence - 0.5% per point of defender's intelligence
Maximum MagicDamageAmp = 150%, Minimum MagicDamageAmp = 50%
Magic damage = (0.95 + attacker's intelligence / 100) x base charm damage x MagicDamageAmp
* base charm damage is charm damage shown with 0 intelligence, average damage = 5.5 x charm tier
Ladder Slasher healing formula:
Damage healed = (0.95 + intelligence / 100) x (1 + healing mastery / 100) x base charm heal
* base charm heal is charm heal shown with 0 intelligence, average heal = 5.5 x charm tier
This is the guys profile, although some of the other stuff he says I strongly disagree with :http://forums.d2jsp.org/user.php?i=535197
1,13 Heavy weapons vs normal weapons
There is only one thing that will affect heavy weapons average damage over a normal weapons average damage and that is that fact that you are attacking a monster half as many times so the damage reduction caused by the enemies armor is only factored in once.
Everything else affects the weapons average damage the same. Many people have said that heavy weapons will gain a higher boosted effect from str and EE thus increasing their multiplier by more then 2x and making them more effective. This is false. That base damage compared from a heavy weapon to a normal weapon is exactly 2. Therefore whatever multiplicative value the str/EE gives the heavy weapons it will be divided later by it's speed factor, which is 2. This then negates those effects.
However one factor that should affect your choice when going heavy weapons or normal weapons is the overkill factor. In fact, the higher EE your weapon has the greater the chances of overkill outweigh the undercut effect of monsters defense. This means that a 280EE normal weapon will outperform a 280EE heavy weapon as far as killing efficiency goes. I believe this phenomenon is even more evident in catacombs. Seriously, a 4k crit in catacombs is just a huge amount of wasted damage.
I'll throw this out very loosely but heres how I believe you should choose your weapons if your only factor in mind is killing efficieny.
Low EE weapons (0EE-100EE) -> wide range heavy weapons
Mid EE weapons (101EE-229EE) -> wide (medium) range heavy weapons if your going arena, wide (medium) range normal weapons if your going catacombs
High EE weapons (230EE-280EE) -> low range normal weapons
However the difference can probably be disregarded and I would foremost recommend you go with a weapon you enjoy or that can be used by a larger number of classes.
Heres a thread with discussion about heavy weapons vs normal weapons : http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=36311118&f=272
1,14 Str = EE, stat placement build
A lot of people have been promoting this approach at stat placement. Basically the main idea behind it is that in order to maximize your damage you want to have the biggest area possible as far as a square would go. Having your str match your EE would be the ideal ratio where every point of str is maximized to it's full potential. However, there is a lot of very evident flaws in this theory. One of them being the fact that this stat placement only works in very precise scenarios. Whenever you start applying this to someone using either a very high EE weapon (230 EE) or a very low EE weapon (60 EE) you'll quickly realize that your stat ratios become absurd.
ie: 60 str - 210 dex
ie2: 230 str - 40 dex
This happens for the simple reason that your EE can be treated as a constant. You cannot adjust the value of your EE without buying a new weapon (the perimeter of your square would be variable, undefined).
Quote
as arxyn pointed out with my quotes, using a heavy weapon should mean nothing with your str
yes, we all know area is maximized in a square
but that is when you're given a set amount of perimeter with which to construct your square enclosure
in this case, your EE is constant
so what you're maximizing is your str and dex multipliers which, OOPS, don't care about your EE one bit
Heres two threads with some interesting back and forth about this build :
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=36311118&f=272 /
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=31286038&f=272&o=0