ok, same as before, 25posts per page, pages 51-100, broadly the first 50 pages of posts were to be expected from such a divisive topic. during this section 51-100, positions have firmed somewhat. several users are the voice of reason, SBD, Bazi, Fender, Handcuffs in particular.
Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 12 2023 11:46pm)
It's okay to punch fascists.
around page 53 there was a good bit of back and forth sniping and trolling. "relatively" tame.
Quote (YeeHaw @ Oct 13 2023 11:03am)
How about the guy on page 40 or so who said the people deserved to die because their parents and grandparents were Jewish. He said it in the most despicable way possible, with no room for questioning what he thought.
Doubt that guy advocates for strong border security and pro life policies.
I seem to have missed that post on page 40, checked with different settings re: post count but could not find the post he is referring to. I am not saying this false, but he would have been better to quote the post to win the argument. could only find this:
Quote (Landmine @ Oct 10 2023 10:15pm)
I’m writing on a phone and not in my nazi bunker like you. You are the one that’s promoting the genocide of Jews… just like your ancestors.
Landmine was very aggressive throughout this period.
a bit of an exchange follows:
Quote (sirthom @ Oct 13 2023 11:54am)
Imagine if this was your family and all done by people who stole your land and there illegally.
I would go seek revenge at a concert too.
this is quite inflammatory
Quote (fender @ Oct 13 2023 03:57pm)
i don't have social media accounts and generally don't use it, no, but i talk to a lot of friends, most of which left leaning, about politics - and not one of them is an anti-semite, not one of them was not disgusted by hamas' actions.
that said, in the post i quoted, you claimed that "the left" as a whole advocated the "killing of jewish infants and civilians" and is generally "anti-semitic". now you say "they blame everything on israel and condemn them".
do you genuinely not realise how those are not the same? the latter might be too simplistic of a view, which sounds particularly tasteless after an ESCALATION that was initiated by brutal attacks from hamas, but it is NOT what you (as well as many dishonest actors, simply trying to silence criticism of israel's policies) claim it is. criticising israel is not anti-semitism.
you might disagree with the argument that israel's decades long brutal occupation and oppression of millions of palestinians is the main reason for the radicalisation that lead to the hamas attacks, and the never-ending back and forth of atrocities against both sides' civilian populations, you might subscribe to the racist "they just hate them because it's in their dna" view, but to claim the former is inherently "anti-semitic" and advocating the murder of infants is just blatantly untrue.
i think you are "confusing" being anti-israel's apartheid and occupation policies for being anti-semitic. i doubt those people you talk about have an issue with jewish people in general, they don't burn synagogues or attack jewish people in the street. i doubt they would be silent about the suffering of the palestinian people if israel were a predominantly christian or hindu nation. and frankly, i doubt you are too dumb to realise that.
again, this thread is full of examples. are you an islamophobe? are you in favour of muslim women, children, elderly, and innocent people being slaughtered, ice mage?
this is a moderate response, wait for the next bit though...
Quote (El1te @ Oct 13 2023 04:01pm)
You're absolutely insane. You're covering for, excusing, condoning the most brutal acts of violence against Jews since the Holocaust. "Criticising Israel" is a convenient white-washed way of saying "I don't support Israel's right to exist" which is in fact genocidal anti-semitism.
This is quite hypocritical projecting. Note the word insane is used incorrectly here. The moderate view is termed insane. bless.
Quote (NiRo_O @ Oct 13 2023 04:04pm)
Theres a full terror city under the surface of Gaza, which we aim to destroy.
This eludes to the fact that the plan is to destroy all of gaza. In international terms, this could also be construed as insane.
Quote (SBD @ Oct 13 2023 04:15pm)
My inclination and hope is that as the ground raid takes place, Israels actions are quelled by world diplomacy and their reputation on the world stage. I understand they have to take action but we all know 24 hours isnt sufficient for getting a million people out, most of which are just people born in the wrong place and the wrong time, not malicious Hamas supporters like some people I think have wet dreams over. If its anything like The War on Terror though we are talking about a multi-year campaign , not a multi-week one, and I suspect as a result we will see mass child, women and elderly deaths from starvation, dehydration, infection and sickness.
a voice of reason.
Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 13 2023 04:11pm)
wont you think of the innocent women, children, and elderly in those terror tunnels?
snipa, again, causing mayhem.
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Oct 13 2023 04:46pm)
Lmao saying "Palestinians =/= Hamas" is supporting nazi terrorism but openly advocating for the mass extermination/genocide/ethnic cleansing of a particular ethnic group is smart and good actually. It is wild to watch Americans try and rationalize this while still thinking they are the good guys. Right or left doesn't matter, they will advocate genocide because they saw some videos that made then saaaaaad. If you guys hate terrorists so much why not nuke yourselves? Hamas are kittens next to the American empire.
This is referring to the first mention of "Palestinians =/= Hamas", where i hold the position such a view is insane.
Quote (El1te @ Oct 13 2023 04:55pm)
...Jordan doesn't want them - they already tried to murder their King in an act of terror. Lebanon doesn't want them - they already committed a massacre when they were let in. Egypt doesn't want them for similar reasons. Gaza is a lone terrorist holdout enclave within a conquered region. The only option is to put them down, as they have demonstrated over the past 70 years that they have no interest in dialogue. They have made the decision for themselves that they would rather fight to the last child rather than negotiate a peaceful existence.
this is quite radical. after all, israel, through ethnic cleansing, moved 1.5M people to gaza in the last 5 years and now we see them shooting them like ducks in a barrel.
another exchange:
Quote (Bazi @ Oct 13 2023 05:50pm)
I am genuinely curious if you think it is true possible for 1 million people to leave without food, water, fuel, on destroyed roads, and while Hamas will do what it can to prevent them from leaving
neutral question.
and the response:
Quote (NiRo_O @ Oct 13 2023 05:55pm)
Swim. The innocent people victims of 7th oct didn’t have any upfront warning. Say thank you and deal with it… or get lost.
callous, insane, response.
Quote (El1te @ Oct 13 2023 05:58pm)
Japan is the perfect example of how to properly deal with and reform a genocidal terrorist state. You have to vanquish the radical elements entirely, while maintaining complete occupation & control of the new regime. However, since Palestine is not a distinct ethnoreligious group like Japan is, and is surround by sympathetic Muslim states who encourage their violence, this solution I don't believe is possible.
difficult for me to agree that nuking a country is the best solution. not difficult for others though.
another exchange:
Quote (El1te @ Oct 13 2023 06:16pm)
You refuse to speak about the reality of what happened, instead labelling it as an "attack", and the first thing you mention is that they targeted military outposts, which is a blatant lie (they didn't, and if you truly believe this, you've been deep into Hamas propaganda). I hope you realize what you're saying here and it's not good.
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 13 2023 06:21pm)
It...it was an attack? They did target military outposts? There's legit videos from Hamas that show them attacking military sites??
https://youtu.be/oL6l-9Qn8SY This is probably the most bizarre exchange I've come across in 15+ years in PaRD, where "attack" is somehow being seen as biased, neutering language. Is it better if I were to describe it as a "horrific attack"? A "terrorist attack"? I'm not sure what you want from me.
another instance of moderate voices being attacked. broadly, bizarre, or insane. still, there is alot of back and forth and the thread can not be seen as insanity. this is page 60.
Quote (Bazi @ Oct 13 2023 06:46pm)
Lold There are few members here that are going to get hard ons if/when million+ Palestinians die , even if 99% of them are non Hamas. Necessary collateral damage. Doesn’t matter that half of Gaza is children. Doesn’t matter that in the last 3 days 500 odd Palestinian children have died. They will post the bombing videos and say murica, jack off, then rewatch the bombing videos You will not have productive discourse with everyone on the planet no matter how many branches you extend
another voice speaking facts.
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 13 2023 06:49pm)
We all have our shortcomings, friend. If mine is that I believe peace is possible and that every person has the capability (but maybe not the willingness) to be reached, then I can be at peace with being seen as naïve.
a voice of reason and restraint. he continues:
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 13 2023 06:58pm)
I think people just have never had conflict resolution and empathy modeled to them. They have, however, likely had ample amounts of anger be modeled in their life.
well said.
and then we had this exchange:
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 13 2023 07:56pm)
That is my understanding as well. I find it hard to reconcile those results with the idea that "everyone supports them [Hamas]".
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Oct 13 2023 08:08pm)
i said basically everyone and those few dissidents are dealt with quickly as we established. there is never 100% support for anything anywhere, thats clear of course. a handful of people speaking is not a movement and there was no resistance when hamas dug up water pipes to build and launch rockets. i dont care about your strawman shit and i never said everyone is a legitimate target. however in the harsh reality israel cant possibly be expected to buy the human shield tactics from hamas. literal decades of terror against jews and multiple wars against them, maybe just stop attacking them, if you dont want a residential building with a rocket launcher on it blown up. are some of the bombings pure retaliation with no military value? sure, maybe just dont massacre jews then. thankfully israel does not listen to shitlibs or we would have another holocaust
Quote (fender @ Oct 13 2023 08:45pm)
you literally said "there is no distinction. gaza is hamas." - if that isn't legitimising israel's cruel and disproportionate retaliation, its terror against millions, literally starving, bombing, and exhausting them to death, then i don't know what is. they could - if they wanted to distinguish themselves from terrorists, but clearly they don't mind murdering tens of thousands of palestinian children and innocents...literal decades of illegal and brutal occupation, establishing an apartheid state, depriving millions of basic needs and freedom. that's as cruel and cynical of a take as saying "if you don't want innocent babies beheaded, maybe stop oppressing millions of people". you are basically saying exactly the things that you falsely attribute to people who actually DENOUNCED those atrocities, and did NOT justify them by israel's policies that lead to this point. you are the one trying to justify the indiscriminate slaughter of children and innocent people. do you genuinely not realise that, do you genuinely think muslim lives just aren't worth as much? because looking at your posts, i don't think there is a way to come to a different conclusion...
Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Oct 13 2023 08:30pm)
On 9/11 over 5,000 men, woman, and children died on our soil. We then went and killed over a million people across 7 countries for the actions of a few terrorist. 200x by the way for those who don't want to do the math. Would not surprise me if Israel indiscriminately bombed and killed 100k people by the time it's all said and done. Do you guys remember this? “We have heard that half a million [Iraqi] children have died. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima,” asked Stahl, “And, you know, is the price worth it?” “I think that is a very hard choice,” Albright answered, “but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”Mar 25, 2022
It's a bit of an issue when you tell the whole world that killing half a million kids is worth it. Also, Israel comparing itself to the US is not really endearing to the rest of the world in this regard.
Quote (SBD @ Oct 13 2023 08:53pm)
I don't understand it either. If we applied the logic of people here who consider everyone to just be Hamas supporters or are just necessary collateral, you could look back at many events where Israelis committed horrible, vile acts, stripping women and children and slaughtering them in villages and by the same logic we should be calling to glass Israel. I don't understand why there's such a difficulty for people to understand you can denounce Hamas and recognize gaza and the majority of its people are not Hamas. The same people expect people to understand that Israels past horrendous acts are not a reflection of all of Israel but can't extend that same rational to someone else.
more logic.
Quote (Crunkt @ Oct 13 2023 08:11pm)
So israel told all the people in gaza to get on buses and leave gaza. Now Israel is bombing the buses with all the civilians on it.
there was a bit of "this didnt happen" but time and facts speak for themselves. (i.e. it happened and happens consistently). and what was the response?
Quote (Elyran @ Oct 13 2023 09:20pm)
You clearly have no fucking clue what youre talking about.
insane.
Quote (gnarjay @ Oct 13 2023 09:38pm)
why do you think Palestinians became radicalized? what do you think the origin of HAMAS is ? maybe its a symptom of Palestinians being humiliated, beaten, oppressed and forced out of their own land by the Isaeli's since the 40's. just a thought
another voice of reason. here is the response:
Quote (Elyran @ Oct 13 2023 09:42pm)
Not all Palestinians are radicalized, and Israel was always for a 2 state solution. But Palestinians (hamas) always rejected it every single time, with the goal of cleansing the entire land of Jews. There is no negotiating. So where do the Jews go if not stay in their historic homeland?
The world now knows for a fact that Benni continued to prop up Hamas in order to ensure there would be no two-state solution. Therefore the argument that Palestinians always reject is not on firm ground. Instead we have some twisted, insane policy from Benni. This is another one of those posts re: all Palestinians = hamas.
then we had this:
Quote (JessiWan @ Oct 13 2023 10:13pm)
So why did your forebears decide to settle themselves in a land that had hostile people living on it already? Kind of stupid, don't you think?
Quote (Elyran @ Oct 13 2023 10:13pm)
Respectfully, shut the fuck up. I will not argue or debate anything with someone who has the IQ of a rock.
One of the issues here is that in the court of public opinion the pro-israeli voices lose patience trying to explain their position, and instead just resort to:
Quote (El1te @ Oct 13 2023 10:28pm)
You're debating with an anti-semite, there's nothing you can say unfortunately
Quote (Elyran @ Oct 13 2023 10:36pm)
It isn't Israel's or anyone else's responsibility to care for gaza citizens other than hamas.
Insane.
Quote (JessiWan @ Oct 13 2023 10:52pm)
Nobody asked you to show humanity to Hamas. They asked you to show humanity to ordinary Palestinians.
reasonable, well i think so anyway.
At this point in the conversation, several locals started posting and Fender commented well here:
Quote (fender @ Oct 13 2023 11:03pm)
haven't you heard? "there is no distinction. gaza is hamas, they are ALL hamas". every palestinian child and every woman slaughtered, every elderly starved - they all deserve it because they are just "animals" (according to the israeli defence minister, taking a page out of the nazi's book of dehumanising your victims) because they are all just terrorists that hate israel for absolutely no reason whatsoever. so slaughtering and starving them by the thousands is justified and good...
nobody refuted this statement by the way.
Quote (Bazi @ Oct 13 2023 11:33pm)
Iran had the most condemning from me and I “condemned” Hamas in over 20 posts in the last 5 days, most recently when resident Israeli asked me to again because I am brown. However I understand you and the army of shit posters will read what is convenient. Literally I have said since post one Hamas will and rightfully should be wiped off the face of the earth, according to you this is inaction. The difference is I don’t get an erection when I hear a hospital is out of power or half a thousand kids have died. The lack of reading comprehension is astounding...
very well said.
Quote (gnarjay @ Oct 13 2023 11:48pm)
half the people here condemn all violence, the other half only condemns violence against Israelis. you want to talk about compassion?
pretty much sums it up. This is page 67/100, alot in these 50 pages so will stop at 75/100 for a break.
Quote (Bazi @ Oct 13 2023 11:57pm)
The political spectrum in this thread has shifted where everything centrist is now “nazi scum liberal”. Every humanitarian conversation or effort is seen as “nazi”. It’s been overused so it’s easy to ignore however there is some irony here. Facts are There are idiotic college protests saying end Israel support. On the opposite end of the spectrum is bomb and destroy everything. The bomb everything to hell including children women hospitals circle jerk faction is loud and clear here. There is not one post that I’ve seen , yes there are a hundred pages so I might have missed one, that has echoed the toxic left echo chamber found elsewhere on the internet or social media. Nobody is calling for an end to Israel aid. In fact almost everyone is agreeing to increase aid to whatever number is necessary. There are quite a few posts from educated individuals wondering how to accomplish wiping out Hamas while limiting civilian casualties, according to you and the mentally handicapped spam bots - they are liberal nazis. The world isn’t as simple as black and white, “camps”. I can be pro Israel and also be pro humanitarian at the same time. The fact that you and others are unable to recognize this is becoming mind numbing
another exchange:
Quote (El1te @ Oct 14 2023 02:26am)
DMZ is an extremely weak half measure. Ethnic cleansing and re-settlement and development is the only real option for long term peace in the area
insane. This post was reported but no visibility of any action taken. on review of his subsequent posts it looks like no moderation was undertaken. also insane.
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 14 2023 04:39am)
Oh, my friend, you are solely mistaken about my postmodern perspectives. I do believe there is good and evil, and supporting ethnic cleansing is unequivocally evil.
Quote (Meanwhile @ Oct 14 2023 12:06pm)
Let's normalize a genocide.
I'll end this session with this post:
Quote (candyman1989 @ Oct 15 2023 11:32am)
Hey guys. Im from israel, just saying. First of all let me wish better times upon all of us. On both sides. Love it or not, both sides has innocent people. I have a question for the hamas supporters, or people yelling "free palastine without really underatanding the situation, just because it makes them look cool and good hearted. What are your suggestions? :) what should israel do. Whoever says stop occupation - dont bother. Because when we left gaza and tried to give money, water etc, hamas and other motherfuckers thrived and we all know what they like to do (murder everyone and try to force islam on everyone) Hell. They turn water pipes given by europe into rockets (lol??) P.s - we're here to stay.
here is the usual matra that condemning what Israel is doing = supporting hamas. they dont see any distinction. He does touch on water pipes, which should remind everyone that Israel has repeatedly adopted a policy of collective punishment. While the international community, to a degree, condemns this, israel has shown no humanity to the innocents.
75/100 so far.
hmm not sure if there burden of evidence re: insanity is reached. only 25-50 more pages to go I guess.