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Mar 23 2012 11:33am
out of the 3 popular sin builds (ghost, trap, and hybrid) i have faith that one day people will learn to clip whirls and stop wasting their time with ghosts when hybrids can do everything ghosts do except better.

that being said, its still a very well thought out and explained guide.
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Mar 23 2012 12:12pm
Quote (young2093 @ Mar 23 2012 06:28am)
You're fucking soft now Max. Honestly.
It's pissing me off.


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................LOL


lol.. not soft. I flame baddies when they need to be flamed still..
but this guide is just solid. I like the build. I like the writeup.
it's not the build I used, personally I prefer to take a dip in life for more frw (circlet+ a few 320/5frw) and 48fhr. and I like more 320s with a lower gc amount.
but I like the choices behind this build, I think dex statting with extra stats past a certain hp amount is a very good idea that not enough wwsins (or any class where stats effect damage/ar) try out due to just copy/pasting the same vita caster template over and over again. experiment folks, experiment. this is how we came up with builds in the first place. this guide author shows he thought about his build and made choices that he thought would best suit him. A+

the only point I really gotta poke at with this guide is the lack of maxed mindblast.
I just skimmed over pages 2-5 and it seems shadow mindblasts "enough"? no no no. never enough. max mindblast. if possible get the same godly rare claw with +3 mindblast (yeah right), soft points count at influencing shadow's ai. even if shadow mindblasts almost every teleport, having a bit more mindblast will make it mindblast in those few instances where it didn't, even if you think you won't notice it, it'll matter at some point over the course of some duel. its really worth the 3 skill points if you don't have it maxed.
I really really really can't stress how much I recommend trying out maxed mindblast over 17 points. srsly.

also on a side note, less gcs help shadow mindblast more. but thats up to you if you want to keep your current weaponblock%. I'd lose a gc for 3x 320s and respec with maxed mindblast and lose 1% weaponblock.
but thats me. you are a player that thinks for yourself, so make your own choices. :P

anyways, again, great writeup.
cheers.
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Mar 23 2012 12:34pm
Skimmed over the comments. Its a good guide (probably the best modern ghost guide currently out there), however you guys are still overlooking a few minor key points for absolute optimization (gvg). If anyone is interested in learning about some of these "unturned stones", feel free to PM JaredV.
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Mar 23 2012 01:28pm
Quote (Ziecheik @ Mar 23 2012 11:12am)
lol.. not soft. I flame baddies when they need to be flamed still..
but this guide is just solid. I like the build. I like the writeup.
it's not the build I used, personally I prefer to take a dip in life for more frw (circlet+ a few 320/5frw) and 48fhr. and I like more 320s with a lower gc amount.
but I like the choices behind this build, I think dex statting with extra stats past a certain hp amount is a very good idea that not enough wwsins (or any class where stats effect damage/ar) try out due to just copy/pasting the same vita caster template over and over again. experiment folks, experiment. this is how we came up with builds in the first place. this guide author shows he thought about his build and made choices that he thought would best suit him. A+

the only point I really gotta poke at with this guide is the lack of maxed mindblast.
I just skimmed over pages 2-5 and it seems shadow mindblasts "enough"? no no no. never enough. max mindblast. if possible get the same godly rare claw with +3 mindblast (yeah right), soft points count at influencing shadow's ai. even if shadow mindblasts almost every teleport, having a bit more mindblast will make it mindblast in those few instances where it didn't, even if you think you won't notice it, it'll matter at some point over the course of some duel. its really worth the 3 skill points if you don't have it maxed.
I really really really can't stress how much I recommend trying out maxed mindblast over 17 points. srsly.

also on a side note, less gcs help shadow mindblast more. but thats up to you if you want to keep your current weaponblock%. I'd lose a gc for 3x 320s and respec with maxed mindblast and lose 1% weaponblock.
but thats me. you are a player that thinks for yourself, so make your own choices. :P

anyways, again, great writeup.
cheers.


Lul, my ghosts don't have full vita either. Haven't for a while.
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Mar 23 2012 02:13pm
No dueling strategies and lack of 20 hard points into Mindblast are the two issues that get me with this one.
Dueling strategies and setups are the two sections where you can really pick at an author, more so with the dueling strategies than the setup.

Also, I don't really like your reasoning for pumping Dexterity. You list damage representations for respective classes, but as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it almost never plays out where you're just receiving damage from these abilities so you have to reach X health to survive Y number of hits.
I think a better idea would be to stat for a specific offensive number, instead of a number with life. In the end it doesn't make much of a difference either way, but the reasoning provided is just bleh.

This post was edited by young2093 on Mar 23 2012 02:14pm
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Mar 23 2012 02:16pm
Quote (young2093 @ Mar 23 2012 04:13pm)
No dueling strategies and lack of 20 hard points into Mindblast are the two issues that get me with this one.
Dueling strategies and setups are the two sections where you can really pick at an author, more so with the dueling strategies than the setup.

Also, I don't really like your reasoning for pumping Dexterity. You list damage representations for respective classes, but as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it almost never plays out where you're just receiving damage from these abilities so you have to reach X health to survive Y number of hits.
I think a better idea would be to stat for a specific offensive number, instead of a number with life. In the end it doesn't make much of a difference either way, but the reasoning provided is just bleh.


What do you mean by that, death coil?

Quote (Bryant @ Mar 23 2012 03:28pm)
Lul, my ghosts don't have full vita either. Haven't for a while.


Hipster
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Mar 23 2012 02:36pm
Quote (Tails chao @ Mar 23 2012 12:04pm)
Solid build (happy that someone finally mentioned a build with str bug), some things I disagree on but the four things I want to point out are:

1. You might want to list an angelics set-up (hsaurus' sucks, and this out-damages highlord's setup in a few situations). If you want to maintain str bug with angelics you will have to use a Fal Lidless on bo switch (unless you use ed/str jewels in a circlet).

2. I would argue that max mb>max venom/fade/extra weapon block. I know the difference between 17/20 doesn't seem massive in practice but the point is that the effect doesn't diminish, besides the difference is more significant than the tiny damage increase you get from 3 pts of venom or the extra % of block you gain, having the highest chance possible to swirly an opponent from 2 screens away is important because when the opponent is swirlied you have a vast increase in offensive options (which increases your damage output over time and reduces the amount of damage that you take).

3. Even if you dislike it you might want to list a 102 fcr set-up. Highlord's is an incredibly good amulet but sometimes I feel like people overrate raw damage in comparison to mobility for certain match-ups.

4. Could use a little more mana. :/



How did you test this? I went on sp with a base level 1 mb and a +99 mb claw and I had comparable results to a regular base level 1 mb build...



yeah i forgot to list angelics. both angelics and hsarus rot in my stash though. I've never actually used either for any matchup, that I can remember. I think maybe they were around for when I had a gfury. Hsarus puts me to 13.6k ar chaos side, which is the same as 1 angelic. idk about 2 angelics atm cuz I don't have the str for dancers til lvl 99. I'm really ok with the 18.5k/10k ar.
I'll look into a 102 build, but I've never hard a problem catching anyhting on a 65.

i honestly never run out of mana, ww costs half that of a bvc, so I don't find myself pumping mana all that often. Some duels have the potential of being long, and could require mana though. so it would be a good idea to have a nice mana ring in stash, maybe even a bmana or 20/17's
And I don't really feel the need to stat to 20, since I saw no difference. maybe ill restat and test it out though. I wish I knew the mechanic behind it in game. From what I've seen, I think it might be something along the lines of.. the shadow has a pool of every skill that it can use, and randomly chooses one. and every hard point u have adds another copy to the pool, increasing the odds of it casting mb. And if that's the case, then a lvl 20 shadow isn't going to be able to cast very many skills in the first place. ofc. that's just a guess. I'm sure someone out there knows a formula for it.

I also tested the lvl 1 mind blast with +3 mindblast on each piece of equiptment, to avoid o skills. and it topped out at about 5 casts per minute.

Quote (young2093 @ Mar 23 2012 04:13pm)
No dueling strategies and lack of 20 hard points into Mindblast are the two issues that get me with this one.
Dueling strategies and setups are the two sections where you can really pick at an author, more so with the dueling strategies than the setup.

Also, I don't really like your reasoning for pumping Dexterity. You list damage representations for respective classes, but as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it almost never plays out where you're just receiving damage from these abilities so you have to reach X health to survive Y number of hits.
I think a better idea would be to stat for a specific offensive number, instead of a number with life. In the end it doesn't make much of a difference either way, but the reasoning provided is just bleh.


I did say it was unfinished. But you're also going to be doing more damage per second, and have higher attack rating and defense when u pump dex. Which can be the difference of finishing someone off, or stunning/ interrupting their attack. And that can save you from having to tank that extra hit, in the first place.
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Mar 23 2012 02:44pm
Quote (ranorn @ Mar 23 2012 01:16pm)
What do you mean by that, death coil?



Hipster


Quiet you hobo.
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Mar 23 2012 03:34pm
Quote (Skibum @ 23 Mar 2012 14:36)
I did say it was unfinished.  But you're also going to be doing more damage per second, and have higher attack rating and defense when u pump dex.  Which can be the difference of finishing someone off, or stunning/ interrupting their attack.  And that can save you from having to tank that extra hit, in the first place.


Well if you're playing correctly, doing enough damage to put them into FHR should never be at question considering swirly should always be present. This further plays into putting 20 hard points into Mindblast.
AR should not be an issue in a perfect would, you'd be getting more than enough from equipment. But b.net isn't a perfect world ><

I don't actually play Ghost anymore, I found a way to make BvC work despite ping issues, but I will say that when I did play I tried to be as offensive as possible with gear and stat for vita. Just playing aggressively on a Ghost shuts down most of your opponents offensive pressure, and I personally value life more than minor ar/damage (defense isn't even worth mentioning on a Ghost.)

This post was edited by young2093 on Mar 23 2012 03:36pm
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Mar 23 2012 04:01pm
Quote (young2093 @ Mar 23 2012 05:34pm)
Well if you're playing correctly, doing enough damage to put them into FHR should never be at question considering swirly should always be present. This further plays into putting 20 hard points into Mindblast.
AR should not be an issue in a perfect would, you'd be getting more than enough from equipment. But b.net isn't a perfect world ><

I don't actually play Ghost anymore,  I found a way to make BvC work despite ping issues, but I will say that when I did play I tried to be as offensive as possible with gear and stat for vita. Just playing aggressively on a Ghost shuts down most of your opponents offensive pressure, and I personally value life more than minor ar/damage (defense isn't even worth mentioning on a Ghost.)


yeah ik, I was refering to triggering fhr from the increased chance to hit. offensive is definitely my play style of choice, I agree with that. But defense rating can be the difference maker when facing a bvc (shitty) or ghost. Least I've found it to be.
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