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May 16 2018 01:41am
Quote (Chevaucheur @ May 14 2018 04:24pm)
Israel annexed the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem in 1967.
This is called "de facto" annexation: the army went, and appropriated the territories.

In 1980, Israel promulgated the Jerusalem Law, and this is known as "de jure" annexation.

In 1981, Israel promulgated the Golan Heights Law, and this is known as "de jure" annexation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_Israel

These are the Golan territories:

http://tof.cx/images/2018/05/14/d59548a0a4c5f1719d9f3d2cf4c4e624.jpg




The UN has refused to recognize these two annexations:
  • the Golan Heights annexation
  • East Jerusalem annexation


The United Nations created Israel in 1948.
But the UN refuses to recognize real sovereignty for Israel
.

I think the United Nations is making a grave mistake in refusing to recognize these two annexations.



Iran benefits from this mistake of the UN.
Iran is taking advantage of Israel's weakness to make extremely serious threats against Israel
.


Golan heights is occupied Syrian territory not Israeli. Even its residents refused Israeli citizenship. Any battles fought there are battles fought on Syrian territory, not an attack on Israel.
The front has been quite since 1970s but when Israel started bombing in Syria in 2013, they opened the front again.
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May 16 2018 01:43am
I don't care. Israeli, waste them! You're my heroes
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May 16 2018 02:16am
Quote (BardOfXiix @ May 16 2018 02:53am)
How much hostility was there in the Arabic nations towards Jews before the creation if Israel? How did it compare to Western nations? I'd guess before their land was literally stolen by the US/UN, they were comparable if not better than most of Europe and America, who had pretty strong anti-Semite views, which were all the vogue until Hitler took it too far.


I am Sephardic.
My ancestors lived for 2,500 years in an Arab country.

They left no trace in the History.
Today, no one remembers them.
No one seems to know that they existed.

It's extremely frustrating.

I created a topic about Islam in this forum, you should read it:
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=78531334&f=119

Here is the story of my ancestors (in red):




Muslims have always refused to grant rights to Jews.
In Arab countries, Jews have always been like tourists, unable to defend themselves by themselves.

It's something extremely serious.



They suffered extreme racial discrimination.
And it's against human rights, according to the 5th international human rights instrument.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_internationale_sur_l%27%C3%A9limination_de_toutes_les_formes_de_discrimination_raciale



What has happened in the Arab countries for 2,500 years?
  • in the street, people made fun of them publicly (It's like a kind of public humiliation)
    When a Muslim parent wants to scare his child, he calls him a Jew.
  • Jews are forbidden to own territories
  • it is the laws of Shariah that are in place
    Jews have no right but to survive.
  • the life of the Jews is threatened, because there are murderers




There are a few rare Jewish people who are respected, including rabbis, and that's it.
Moderation is imposed.
Implicitly, it is forbidden to say a word wrongly.
Implicitly, it is forbidden to do anything unusual.
Jews only have the right to survive, and not the right to do creative things (music, painting).
Nothing, nothing, nothing.
Everything is forbidden in their society, especially for Jews.

We were for them a defense tool, and nothing else than that.



In contrast, look at the oath that Napoleon made in France in 1805:
Quote
I swear to maintain the integrity of the territory of the Republic, to respect and enforce respect for the Concordat and freedom of religion, equality of rights, political and civil liberty, the irrevocability of the sale of national lands; not to raise any tax except in virtue of the law; to maintain the institution of Legion of Honor and to govern in the sole interest, happiness and glory of the French people.


The Jews of Europe had certain rights that the Sephardic Jews did not possess.

This post was edited by Chevaucheur on May 16 2018 02:21am
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May 16 2018 02:35am
Quote (Algorhythm @ May 16 2018 09:41am)
Golan heights is occupied Syrian territory not Israeli. Even its residents refused Israeli citizenship. Any battles fought there are battles fought on Syrian territory, not an attack on Israel.
The front has been quite since 1970s but when Israel started bombing in Syria in 2013, they opened the front again.


You are wrong.
Israel annexed the Golan, militarily, and by law.
According to Israel, Golan heighs is Israeli territory.
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May 16 2018 02:36am
Quote (Chevaucheur @ May 16 2018 10:35am)
You are wrong.
Israel annexed the Golan, militarily, and by law.
According to Israel, Golan heighs is Israeli territory.


A country annexing another country's occupied territory in their own parliament, doesn't make it theirs. Israeli law is not international law.
According to Israel, Palestinians don't exist either... who cares what the narrative is according to Israel.
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May 16 2018 02:37am
Quote (the_rest @ 16 May 2018 08:43)
I don't care. Israeli, waste them! You're my heroes


i though your real hero was Ceausescu :(
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May 16 2018 02:38am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 16 May 2018 11:37)
i though your real hero was Ceausescu :(


he wasn't too bad, but we must take his failure into account
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May 16 2018 02:40am
Quote (Algorhythm @ May 16 2018 10:36am)
A country annexing another country's occupied territory in their own parliament, doesn't make it theirs. Israeli law is not international law.
According to Israel, Palestinians don't exist either... who cares what the narrative is according to Israel.


It is important to know the laws of Israel in order to understand their attitude.
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May 16 2018 02:41am
Quote (Chevaucheur @ May 16 2018 10:40am)
It is important to know the laws of Israel in order to understand their attitude.


I understand their attitude just fine. It needs adjustment :)

This post was edited by Algorhythm on May 16 2018 02:41am
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May 16 2018 02:45am
Quote (Algorhythm @ May 16 2018 07:41am)
Golan heights is occupied Syrian territory not Israeli. Even its residents refused Israeli citizenship. Any battles fought there are battles fought on Syrian territory, not an attack on Israel.
The front has been quite since 1970s but when Israel started bombing in Syria in 2013, they opened the front again.



True. It is occupied after a war which Israel didn’t start.
I can’t think of a country that didn’t shaped its borders through war.

The next is Not connected to the comment, but I’ll like to hear opinions on this:
The common ground of every society should be the desire to live in peace. Israel is happened to be a young state, established after the horrors of WWII. The discussion if Israel should or shouldn’t exist is irrelevant. What we do need in this country is a solution which allows us to co-exist in our neighborhood.
Israelis , just like many Palestinians , was born into this situation. Nothing much I can do to change the past. And because of the constant failure in ending the conflict, a lot of us lost hope.

The way I see it, we already lost the chance for one happy family.
The solution I’m for, is the two states solution. The way to get it is unclear.
Either a strong , charismatic leader will emerge and force the situation to end (by two states or one state) - By making painful decisions.
OR we will be at a civil war which change the whole existing system to something else.

Ofc other things which are not necessarily connected to Israel might happend (such as war or being forced down by superpowers) - but it’s not up to us.

Any other solutions in the horizon ?
What would you think will happen ?
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