Am vegan. Can confirm. Am pompous wanker.

For the OP though:

I think there's a difference between the intentional killing of animals v. accidental or incidental killing of animals. However, the most #woke vegans understand that the entire movement is an exercise in harm reduction and not harm elimination.

I think most people get hung up on the numbers in this debate, i.e. 'this process kills this many animals, therefore...' and so on
But for me, it's always been about the quality of life farm animals receive prior to slaughter. The case of coincidental poisoning of insects is really not comparable with keeping hundreds of chickens locked in a barn from birth until the moment they are strung up by their claws and passed over a circular saw.

i agree, accidental can be far worse and harder to control for suffering. if i intentionally cut a chickens head off it's dead instantly. but there's not much if any way to control the suffering of an animal that's sucked into a combine. (mostly teasing btw, i get what you mean)

i'm seeing more of a non-pushy strain of vegans that make common cause with hunters and people generally against factory farming. hopefully they take over and kill off the "meat is murder, agree with us or you're a bad person, no we don't want to talk" crowd.



what about the intentional killing of 90% of insects in a farm field, as any insecticide is designed to do?

i raise chickens and feel bad that they only have 10 sq. feet per chicken in their run



the price of meat is dependent on the factory farms, as are non-meat protein substitutes. economics tells us if you remove one the demand for the other rises, crickets, soy, etc. lowering cost of production and making it available for some of those who gave up meat.

This post was edited by thesnipa on May 22 2018 02:06pm

With everyone of his posts the mosaic of how big of a beta inkanddagger is, gets completed.

This may come as a shock to you but affordable and ethical farming are mutual exclusive. Fact is the reason why so many poor people all over the globe are able to have meat in their diets at least sometimes is precisely because of factory farming.

It's quite ironic that a poster that's constantly "fighting" for the poor, socialism, etc, doesn't see that if the vegan agenda was reality that would mean the poor would be priced out. It's no wonder the privileged first world soyboy that goes to Starbucks and drops 6 bucks on a soy latte can afford organic meat if he wants to, but he's completely ignorant about the mother of 3 down the street that if the price of ground beef went from $3 to $7 that means that those kids wouldn't be getting the proper amount of animal protein in their diets.

In school we had this one vegan guy who still ate fish. His argument for it was "fish are ugly af so they deserve to get killed and eaten"

This post was edited by Crud1ty on May 22 2018 02:06pm

Well I think my point is similarly applicable even in this situation - you're hardly imprisoning and breeding the insects to be killed, so their suffering is on a level comparable to what they'd experience in the wild.



I have much more sympathy with people who raise their own livestock because they are more likely to actually care for the animal and treat it well, even if the ultimate intention is to slaughter it

This post was edited by GetOnYourKnees on May 22 2018 02:14pm

He wasn't vegan.

The price of meat is dependent on where the intersection supply and demand meets. A producer setting prices would mean a monopolistic market, not really what we have in the US. You don't remove the demand for meat, what you're talking about is removing the supply of affordable meat which would push that demand to other substitute goods such as soy or crickets or whatever.

The thing is this line of argument can be extended ad nauseam. I mean why stop with factory farming, other things are harmful and all we really need is a few key super veggies, oatmeal and soylent green, therefore lets get rid of everything and anything that is harmful in any way.

I'd rather the poor members of our societies not be deprived of such basic pleasures such as meat but that's just me.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 22 2018 02:17pm

I’ve never found one of those we can feed 300 people for every 1 studies if we just eat soybeans instead of beef with sufficient detail. No doubt meat is less efficient but I’d like to see how the numbers consider things like pasture land can’t produce yields like crop land and the expected yields of protein crops vs grains.

This post was edited by remco6 on May 22 2018 02:17pm