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Poll > What Is Obama's Worst Foreign Policy Faiure?
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Sep 23 2009 11:28pm
Quote (owlpoo @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 01:27am)
Pretty much fight it like a war should be fought.  I'm, I guess, old school in my opinions on war fighting, not for this new pc ass kissing permission based stuff.


You really think they can just brute force an end in Afghanistan?
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Sep 23 2009 11:31pm
Quote (shay11 @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 01:28am)
You really think they can just brute force an end in Afghanistan?


I think had we gone in like that from the start and continued that way we could have.
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Sep 23 2009 11:33pm
Quote (shay11 @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 05:28am)
You really think they can just brute force an end in Afghanistan?


Muschareff had an interesting take on the situation. I listened to him give a speech, and he touched on strategy in Afghanistan.

The main stress is for more troops, by which more ground can be taken and held, and the Taliban eventually left without a base to turn to. As of now, we clear bases, and they return, we need to keep the ground occupied.

Secondary is to pick off less extreme clan leaders allied to the Taliban, they keep themselves in Afghanistan by allying with the tribal regions, but if the tribes leave them, again, they'll have nowhere to go.
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Sep 23 2009 11:34pm
Quote (owlpoo @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 01:31am)
I think had we gone in like that from the start and continued that way we could have.


That may be true, however, since we cannot do that now I don't see that it becomes viable on the power that it could have once worked.

This post was edited by shay11 on Sep 23 2009 11:34pm
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Sep 23 2009 11:36pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 01:33am)
Muschareff had an interesting take on the situation. I listened to him give a speech, and he touched on strategy in Afghanistan.

The main stress is for more troops, by which more ground can be taken and held, and the Taliban eventually left without a base to turn to. As of now, we clear bases, and they return, we need to keep the ground occupied.

Secondary is to pick off less extreme clan leaders allied to the Taliban, they keep themselves in Afghanistan by allying with the tribal regions, but if the tribes leave them, again, they'll have nowhere to go.


Has this part of the world not repelled every major power that has attempted exert power over it for centuries? I wish the liberal IR school could magically just brainwash everyone.
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Sep 23 2009 11:39pm
Quote (shay11 @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 05:36am)
Has this part of the world not repelled every major power that has attempted exert power over it for centuries? I wish the liberal IR school could magically just brainwash everyone.


For the reasons Muschareff mentioned, and advocates fixed.

The tribal nature means it's incredibly hard to control. Setting them against common enemies is relatively easy, but eventually they'll break up.

We need to slowly pick off their tribal network, and then pump aid into the region with a focus on sustainability. It's that or widespread genocide against their clans and tribes, and I'd prefer the former.
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Sep 23 2009 11:41pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 01:39am)
For the reasons Muschareff mentioned, and advocates fixed.

The tribal nature means it's incredibly hard to control. Setting them against common enemies is relatively easy, but eventually they'll break up.

We need to slowly pick off their tribal network, and then pump aid into the region with a focus on sustainability. It's that or widespread genocide against their clans and tribes, and I'd prefer the former.


I suppose we can't try diplomacy?
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Sep 23 2009 11:41pm
Quote (shay11 @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 01:34am)
That may be true, however, since we cannot do that now I don't see that it becomes viable on the power that it could have once worked.


Eh, technically I think that it is still possible to actually do, but that we simply won't even try to. The past tense in my speaking was because thanks to the lack of public support for this war today it will never happen regardless.
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Sep 23 2009 11:43pm
Quote (owlpoo @ Thu, Sep 24 2009, 01:41am)
Eh, technically I think that it is still possible to actually do, but that we simply won't even try to.  The past tense in my speaking was because thanks to the lack of public support for this war today it will never happen regardless.


Let me rephrase my question then Sir. What would you suggest could actually be done now, with giving credence to public opinion etc.
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Sep 24 2009 07:08am
Quote (bogie160 @ Wed, Sep 23 2009, 11:43pm)
I think we'll see shortly how this plays out. Long term consequences will be the alienation of our East European allies, but it's up for debate whether Russia will capitalize or not. If not, it'll wash out, we won't gain much of anything, and our allies will be distanced, but Russia may be less cold. On the other hand, if Russia continues it's aggressive foreign policy, it will be marked as a clear failure.


Our foreign policy is more aggressive than Russia's.

Quote (general_patton @ Wed, Sep 23 2009, 11:49pm)
I think his biggest failure is not annihilating every member of the Israeli lobby and indirectly supporting the injustices against the Palestinians.


My man.
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