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kevss
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Nov 24 2022 09:56am
Which if true is fine, but giving me a 100+ hour xp grinding snorefest of repeating the same dungeons over and over before the real game begins is a no ty from me.

1 - 100 needs to take like 1/5th of the time to do... If not faster. Especially considering there going to do seasons, like if I play 2 hours a day (which is prob more than I can really) it'll take me 50 days just to get to the bit where the game begins and GOD FORBID I want to try more than 1 character.

It's absoutely rediculous to gate the part where the game gets good behind such a huge grind. It's fine in D2 because it doesn't matter if your level 80 or level 99 but imagine if you needed to get level 99 in D2 before you could start farming.



musclemagic
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Nov 24 2022 11:13am
Quote (kevss @ Nov 24 2022 07:56am)
Which if true is fine, but giving me a 100+ hour xp grinding snorefest of repeating the same dungeons over and over before the real game begins is a no ty from me.

1 - 100 needs to take like 1/5th of the time to do... If not faster. Especially considering there going to do seasons, like if I play 2 hours a day (which is prob more than I can really) it'll take me 50 days just to get to the bit where the game begins and GOD FORBID I want to try more than 1 character.

It's absoutely rediculous to gate the part where the game gets good behind such a huge grind. It's fine in D2 because it doesn't matter if your level 80 or level 99 but imagine if you needed to get level 99 in D2 before you could start farming.


100% this. Once I complete the story and get spit out around lvl 50 I am not at all looking forward to the 50-100 no loot, no choice, atrocity.

Luckily with 4-man zone splitting it only takes a day or so.
Fankytore
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Nov 24 2022 12:14pm
Quote (musclemagic @ 23 Nov 2022 23:16)
I mean.. tons more build varieties and tons more trading than in D2, but okay.


You are the first one in the hole cimmunty saying that, did you got diffrent beta version to play than others? Trading is limited and thats a fact, you can't trade unique items. Diablo 4 is not arpg game its some kinda of hybrid game which is yet to be seen but its not arpg game.
SyndicateGt
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Nov 24 2022 12:40pm
Quote (musclemagic @ 24 Nov 2022 06:30)
Even on one class different builds feel very different. A bow, melee, or trapper rogue all play very differently. I'm unsure how you can justify saying Barb&Nec are the same when they're super different.

Necro can give party-wide shouts? Barb can give minion meat shields?

Y'all are weird.


Barrage literally felt like Flurry (Bow vs Melee skill)

Shouts vs Curse, they have nearly the same effect to enemies (not players) how is that super different? Both can apply fortify, vulnerability, slow, reduce damage etc.... everything is the same.
Humbletrader
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Nov 24 2022 05:02pm
Quote (SyndicateGt @ Nov 24 2022 07:40pm)
Barrage literally felt like Flurry (Bow vs Melee skill)

Shouts vs Curse, they have nearly the same effect to enemies (not players) how is that super different? Both can apply fortify, vulnerability, slow, reduce damage etc.... everything is the same.


Atleast the game looks good.
Crystal87
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Nov 25 2022 02:49am
Quote (SyndicateGt @ Nov 24 2022 03:10pm)
I respectfully disagree. I made it to 100 on a Rogue and all others to 70+

Maxing glyphs werer no different than D3 GRs maxing legendary gems. Who has fun doing that???

While you had several build options, everything is homogenized when you look at it from a macro level. There's nothing a Necro can do that a Barb can't when it comes to applying buffs and debuffs.

Instead of a kajillion build options (which I disagree with), everyone will gravitate to the meta in a few weeks after launch. Want to switch builds on the fly? Well my friend...have fun leveling new glyphs again in those same boring ass dungeons.

There's nothing fun about end game, it's the same grindy shit you did to reach 100. Hopefully they fix pvp and this will change.

...so yea atm D4 is shit like you said.

**End rant. I been playing Diablo since 1997 and have fond memories of playing D2 with my college roomates. I put maybe 15,000 hours into the franchise and want to see it succeed. The current state of D4 (gaming in general) saddens me, I just hope Blizzard takes our feedback to heart.


diablo 4 is diablo 3 just rewritten.
d4 glyphs = d3 gems
d4 paragon = d3 kanais cube + paragon
d4 items = d3 items
d4 builds all about items like in d3
it's dull high grind without any fun
Jacobbc2
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Nov 25 2022 08:44pm
Quote (musclemagic @ Nov 23 2022 05:30pm)
To be fair, D3 does have more build options than D2 (even at launch it did) and if they had delivered what was promised it could have been good. Instead they went the complete opposite direction with gear becoming untradable and sets creating your builds for you.. and yeah.. d3 is shit.

D4 is shit until you get all your Paragon points, glyphs maxed, and start using all the kajillion different build options. It's fun AF.



The problem is that people hyper focus on the “number of viable builds” as though the higher that number is, the better a game feels to play, and that’s simply not true. Having 30 different builds to play but not being invested in a single one of them leaves your character and playstyle uninspired and lacking. The thing that made Diablo 2 builds so compelling is that you crafted your entire kit around a few skills that worked well together, and later on synergies were implemented to complement that idea. While it’s easy to say now 20 years after the fact that D2 is fully fleshed out and build diversity isn’t as good as it once was, the initial system of “build your character the way you want it to play because your actions have a permanent effect on your playthrough” in the era before akara would reset your skill points made your decisions actually impactful. Who the fuck cares if I can swap from whirlwind to hammer of the ancients and bang through the same content with a different shitty skill animation, i’d rather my character have a sense of identity and be the product of working towards bringing my build to fruition with my preferred playstyle and skill in mind.

Think about how you feel saying “I play a barb” in d3 versus how you feel saying “i love playing javazon in diablo 2”, that sense of identity is just one of the many reasons that diablo 2 makes the rest of the series seem inferior in comparison

This post was edited by Jacobbc2 on Nov 25 2022 08:48pm
musclemagic
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Nov 25 2022 11:17pm
Quote (Jacobbc2 @ Nov 25 2022 06:44pm)
The problem is that people hyper focus on the “number of viable builds” as though the higher that number is, the better a game feels to play, and that’s simply not true. Having 30 different builds to play but not being invested in a single one of them leaves your character and playstyle uninspired and lacking. The thing that made Diablo 2 builds so compelling is that you crafted your entire kit around a few skills that worked well together, and later on synergies were implemented to complement that idea. While it’s easy to say now 20 years after the fact that D2 is fully fleshed out and build diversity isn’t as good as it once was, the initial system of “build your character the way you want it to play because your actions have a permanent effect on your playthrough” in the era before akara would reset your skill points made your decisions actually impactful. Who the fuck cares if I can swap from whirlwind to hammer of the ancients and bang through the same content with a different shitty skill animation, i’d rather my character have a sense of identity and be the product of working towards bringing my build to fruition with my preferred playstyle and skill in mind.

Think about how you feel saying “I play a barb” in d3 versus how you feel saying “i love playing javazon in diablo 2”, that sense of identity is just one of the many reasons that diablo 2 makes the rest of the series seem inferior in comparison


Can't argue with that. The sense of investment into one build certainly isn't there in D4. I am one of the few who still wish respecs (including akaras) didn't exist. That identity with the build is simply non-existent on D3. But for me D4 has nailed the class identification rather than build identification. I feel like a "badass barbarian" who can change his build around depending on the situation and still get the "badass barb" vibe. Of course D2 has just as good even better total class feel, but that feeling is also 20yo. It's hard for me to get into any other game so I'm really happy D4 was good for me.
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