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LaughingSkull
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Jul 16 2022 06:37pm
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After yet more experimenting with numbers, values, and math, I have come to the conclusion that, maybe,
JUST MAYBE, the issue at the core here is not COLD MASTERY itself, but rather the just plain WRONG and misleading number values attached to skill tooltips,
AND/OR the incorrect math calculations applied at the level of the back-end code.

---

In this update, I am going to present to you an experiment with a specific target -- Ghoul Lord [Hell ; Arcane Sanctuary] -- and FOUR separate stages of a mode of damage-dealing against it.

THE STORY:

I had Glacial Spike at level 23, dealing 170-178 damage,
and Cold Mastery at level 17, piercing 82 percent cold resistance.

In the process, I found (gambled) Tarnhelm (+1 to all skills) and leveled up TWICE, both times putting a point into Cold Mastery.

Thus, my Glacial Spike is now leved 24, dealing 177-185 damage,
whereas my Cold Mastery is at level 20, piercing 85 cold resistance.

Thus, the 4 separate stages of my mode of attack against a Hell Ghoul Lord (Arcane Sanctuary) were:

1) GS 23, CM 17
2) GS 24, CM 18 (Tarnhelm)
3) GS 24, CM 19 (+1 more point into CM)
4) GS 24, CM 20 (+1 more yet point into CM)

---

At stages 1, 2, and 3, the exact same behaviour was observed:

The Ghoul Lord would either die in 6 casts of Glacial Spike,
OR, the 6th spike would leave him at a tiny sliver of life in his health bar, thus requiring a final, 7th Spike to finally finish him off.
(about equal chance of either happening; I think that maybe the latter scenario was seen just a bit more frequently)

Finally, at stage FOUR, a NEW outcome / scenario could be seen:
In addition to the previous two scenarios, which were already mentioned,
now, VERY RARELY the Ghoul Lord had a chance to die from just 5 (FIVE) Glacial Spikes.

---

OK, so, the verdict is that, apparently, a progression in the damage is observable.

HOWEVER,

to be honest with you, I had expected a visible change to have been present already at stage 2, or, at the very worst case: stage 3.

Why did it take so long, and so much, for my investment in skills and equipment to finally pay off??

Well... this is where THE MATH part comes in, which should, hopefully, demonstrate to you that D2 pre-LoD's math engine is, indeed, FUCKING BROKEN !!!

---

In my subsequent demonstrated calculations,
I'm NOT going to round up/down (almost) ANYTHING and instead use the raw decimal-point percentages, for the sake of (almost) maximal accuracy.

I don't know whether that's precisely how the game's engine operates. Presumably it's NOT, and instead the game rounds up/down values.
However, it really shouldn't matter in this specific case, as any potential rounding up/down would constitute a difference in damage of no more than 2-3 points,
which is really insignificant, given that we're dealing with monsters with nearly a 1000 (thousand) life points.

---

OK...

A Hell Ghoul Lord (Arcane Sanctuary) has 75% Cold Resistance.


Thus, theoretically,
lvl 17 CM, with 82 pierce should bring that down to 13.5 %
lvl 18 CM, with 83 pierce should bring that down to 12.75 %
lvl 19 CM, with 84 pierce should bring that down to 12 %
lvl 20 CM, with 85 pierce should bring that down to 11.25 %

Thus, theoretically,
at each of the 4 separate stages outlined above, near the start of my post, the situation would be thus:

1) GS 23, CM 17 -- GS would deal 86.5 % of its damage, or 147.05 - 153.97 -- an average of 150.5
2) GS 24, CM 18 -- GS would deal 87.25 % of its damage, or 154.43 - 161.41 -- an average of 157.92
3) GS 24, CM 19 -- GS would deal 88 % of its damage, or 155.76 - 162.8 -- an average of 159.28
4) GS 24, CM 20 -- GS would deal 88.75 % of its damage, or 157.09 - 164.19 -- an average of 160.64

SO...

compared to the first stage, the FOURTH stage sees roughly a 7% increase in its damage output...

...AND YET, THE SPELL-DAMGE BEHAVIOUR SEEMS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME !!!


??? WHAT'S GOING ON HERE ???


---

According to my pre-LoD D2 booklet, Hell Ghoul Lord's life points are between 694 and 954, depending on the level (which is not listed explicitly).

Now, presumably, since the Arcane Sanctuary is the earliest location at which Ghoul Lords can be found, that should mean that this particular version of Ghoul Lords should have the amount of life that is near this lower boundary -- 694,
whereas Ghoul Lords found in Tal Rasha's Tomb(s) should possess an amount of life that is nearing the UPPER boundary of 954.

Thus, theoretically, regardless of which of the above-elaborated stages I'm at, I should be taking down Arcane Sanctuary Ghoul Lords in NO MORE THAN 5 (FIVE) glacial spikes.

Yet, PRACTICALLY, the situation is that I need AT LEAST 5 (FIVE) glacial spikes.

...

WHAT IS MORE, even if we accept that Arcane Sanctuary Ghoul Lords have the MAXIMUM amount of life possible, 954,
(which really shouldn't be the case at all, as that value should be reserved for their higher-level counterparts found in Tal Rasha's tomb),
then I would still need NO MORE THAN 6 (SIX) glacial spikes to take them down, when at stage 4...

Yet, as can be seen from the practical application, this is not the case, and I sometimes require 7 (Seven) GS's... no different than Stage 1 at all !!

---

VERDICT:

The maths / numbers game of pre-LoD D2 is ALL WRONG.


What is wrtten does not correspond at all to what actually is.

---

Q.E.D.

-

This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Jul 16 2022 06:42pm
LaughingSkull
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Jul 19 2022 01:49am
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Just a quick chime-in:

Ghoul Lords found in Tal Rasha's Tomb(s) are just as durable as those found in the Arcane Sanctuary.

Even though they are (supposedly) higher level, and my Classic Dablo 2 booklet which I've had since 2000 clearly says that they can have variations in ther amount of life points:
from "694" to "954".

As evidenced from my experiments elaborated above, however, it is evident that neither can be the case...

...which does lead to the idea that the listed resistance values aren't correct either...

Sigh.

-



This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Jul 19 2022 01:49am
LaughingSkull
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Aug 3 2022 10:11am
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Just a quick update:


Quote (LaughingSkull @ Jul 17 2022 03:37am)
-

Thus, the 4 separate stages of my mode of attack against a Hell Ghoul Lord (Arcane Sanctuary) were:

1) GS 23, CM 17
2) GS 24, CM 18 (Tarnhelm)
3) GS 24, CM 19 (+1 more point into CM)
4) GS 24, CM 20 (+1 more yet point into CM)
-


-

I was lucky enough to find a staff that, besides the +2 to Sorc Skills mod, also gave a +1 to Glacial Spike.

Previously, my staff was a +2 to sorc skills / +2 to teleport one.

So now, I have a fifth stage of a mode of attack:

5) GS 25, CM 20

Level 25 Glacial Spike deals 184-192 damage.

---

Quote (LaughingSkull @ Jul 17 2022 03:37am)
---

At stages 1, 2, and 3, the exact same behaviour was observed:

The Ghoul Lord would either die in 6 casts of Glacial Spike,
OR, the 6th spike would leave him at a tiny sliver of life in his health bar, thus requiring a final, 7th Spike to finally finish him off.
(about equal chance of either happening; I think that maybe the latter scenario was seen just a bit more frequently)

Finally, at stage FOUR, a NEW outcome / scenario could be seen:
In addition to the previous two scenarios, which were already mentioned,
now, VERY RARELY the Ghoul Lord had a chance to die from just 5 (FIVE) Glacial Spikes.


-

You would think that, now that I have upped my damage even more, by ONE WHOLE BASE LEVEL OF MY ATTACK SKILL,
the scenario where the Ghoul Lord would take 7 Glacial Spikes to die would be eliminated?
Right?

..

RIGHT?

...

WRONG.

Sometimes, though admittedly more rarely than was the case with stages 1, 2, and 3, he would STILL take 7 Glacial Spikes to die.

...

Time for math again...

---

Quote (LaughingSkull @ Jul 17 2022 03:37am)
-

---

OK...

A Hell Ghoul Lord (Arcane Sanctuary) has 75% Cold Resistance.


Thus, theoretically,
lvl 17 CM, with 82 pierce should bring that down to 13.5 %
lvl 18 CM, with 83 pierce should bring that down to 12.75 %
lvl 19 CM, with 84 pierce should bring that down to 12 %
lvl 20 CM, with 85 pierce should bring that down to 11.25 %

Thus, theoretically,
at each of the 4 separate stages outlined above, near the start of my post, the situation would be thus:

1) GS 23, CM 17 -- GS would deal 86.5 % of its damage, or 147.05 - 153.97 -- an average of 150.5
2) GS 24, CM 18 -- GS would deal 87.25 % of its damage, or 154.43 - 161.41 -- an average of 157.92
3) GS 24, CM 19 -- GS would deal 88 % of its damage, or 155.76 - 162.8 -- an average of 159.28
4) GS 24, CM 20 -- GS would deal 88.75 % of its damage, or 157.09 - 164.19 -- an average of 160.64

SO...

compared to the first stage, the FOURTH stage sees roughly a 7% increase in its damage output...

...AND YET, THE SPELL-DAMGE BEHAVIOUR SEEMS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME !!!


??? WHAT'S GOING ON HERE ???


---


-

5) GS 25, CM 20 -- GS would deal 88.75 % of its damage, or 163.3 - 170.4 -- an average of 166.85

compared to the FOURTH stage, the FIFTH stage sees roughly a 4% increase in its damage output...

Nothing too special...

...BUT...

compared to the FIRST stage, the FIFTH stage sees roughly a 11% increase in its damage output...

-

...AND YET, THE OUTCOME / SCENARIO WHERE THE GHOUL LORD WOULD TAKE 7 (SEVEN!!) GLACIAL SPIKES TO TAKE DOWN IS STILL NOT ELIMINATED !!!

---

How can that be possible?

-

Well, refer to the final verdict of my previous long post:

-

Quote (LaughingSkull @ Jul 17 2022 03:37am)
-

VERDICT:

The maths / numbers game of pre-LoD D2 is ALL WRONG.


What is wrtten does not correspond at all to what actually is.

---

-


Q.E.D.


---


P.S. Now, let me be fair, though:

I did eventually level up 2 more times, levelling up Cold Mastery 2 more times.

Eventually, this scenario with the Ghoul Lord taking 7 GS's to kill was (seemingly?) completely eliminated.

More on that later... ;)

This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Aug 3 2022 10:18am
Axel420
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Aug 3 2022 10:43am
Quote (LaughingSkull @ Aug 3 2022 06:11pm)

Right?

..

RIGHT?

...

WRONG.


dun dun DUUUUUUUUUN
robbhc
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Aug 4 2022 08:14pm
Sounds like why they patched it?
takii
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Aug 7 2022 12:23am
Diablogy professor, Joey
LaughingSkull
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Joined: Jun 10 2022
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Aug 16 2022 09:27pm
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After ~3 hours of repeated abuse of copy-pasting saves for getting that OPTIMAL imbue from Charsi, I am happy to present this:






Now, to be frank, it's not what I most wanted: +2 skills, +3 glacial, AND Fastest Cast Rate...

I did get some other staffs that had +2 skills, +1 glacial (for example...) AND FCR,

but I ultimately decided that I wanted to have the absolute MAX for SKILLS.

---

NOW there's only one thing that's left to find to achieve my desired build:

A +2 to Sorc skills ammy. (currently wearing a very good rare +1 to sorc skills one with 2 resistances and life to boot... it's honestly scary good)

Only one thing in the game can drop it: Hell Diablo.

---

P.S. So, yes, I do have every other item of skill boost possible for this build: 2 SoJ's, Silks of the Victor and Tarnhelm plus the +1 sorc skills rare ammy.

If anyone else is curious for the rest of my items:

Gloves are Frostburns. Really NEED that mana.
The SoJs alone are not enough to sustain the 80 mana per cast that Frozen Orb costs lol
Despite its supposed "strength", it really is a skill that you need to spam for it to kill.

Boots are Fastest R/W + 37% fire res + 17 life
Belt is Cold/Light res + 19 life + Fastest HR (absolutely REQUIRED, considering I don't have frost armor and can get trapped easily if I accidentally tele into the wrong crowd)


For Chaos Sanctuary, I ditch the Silks of the Victor and put on GOLDSKIN instead.
Otherwise the Abyss Knights and Mages will absolutely melt me with their elemental damage, despite my ~700 life.
Yes, my skills are slightly weaker that way, but it's a necessity... :S

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This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Aug 16 2022 09:33pm
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