-

After yet more experimenting with numbers, values, and math, I have come to the conclusion that, maybe,
JUST MAYBE, the issue at the core here is not COLD MASTERY itself, but rather the just plain WRONG and misleading number values attached to skill tooltips,
AND/OR the incorrect math calculations applied at the level of the back-end code.

---

In this update, I am going to present to you an experiment with a specific target -- Ghoul Lord [Hell ; Arcane Sanctuary] -- and FOUR separate stages of a mode of damage-dealing against it.

THE STORY:

I had Glacial Spike at level 23, dealing 170-178 damage,
and Cold Mastery at level 17, piercing 82 percent cold resistance.

In the process, I found (gambled) Tarnhelm (+1 to all skills) and leveled up TWICE, both times putting a point into Cold Mastery.

Thus, my Glacial Spike is now leved 24, dealing 177-185 damage,
whereas my Cold Mastery is at level 20, piercing 85 cold resistance.

Thus, the 4 separate stages of my mode of attack against a Hell Ghoul Lord (Arcane Sanctuary) were:

1) GS 23, CM 17
2) GS 24, CM 18 (Tarnhelm)
3) GS 24, CM 19 (+1 more point into CM)
4) GS 24, CM 20 (+1 more yet point into CM)

---

At stages 1, 2, and 3, the exact same behaviour was observed:

The Ghoul Lord would either die in 6 casts of Glacial Spike,
OR, the 6th spike would leave him at a tiny sliver of life in his health bar, thus requiring a final, 7th Spike to finally finish him off.
(about equal chance of either happening; I think that maybe the latter scenario was seen just a bit more frequently)

Finally, at stage FOUR, a NEW outcome / scenario could be seen:
In addition to the previous two scenarios, which were already mentioned,
now, VERY RARELY the Ghoul Lord had a chance to die from just 5 (FIVE) Glacial Spikes.

---

OK, so, the verdict is that, apparently, a progression in the damage is observable.

HOWEVER,

to be honest with you, I had expected a visible change to have been present already at stage 2, or, at the very worst case: stage 3.

Why did it take so long, and so much, for my investment in skills and equipment to finally pay off??

Well... this is where THE MATH part comes in, which should, hopefully, demonstrate to you that D2 pre-LoD's math engine is, indeed, FUCKING BROKEN !!!

---

In my subsequent demonstrated calculations,
I'm NOT going to round up/down (almost) ANYTHING and instead use the raw decimal-point percentages, for the sake of (almost) maximal accuracy.

I don't know whether that's precisely how the game's engine operates. Presumably it's NOT, and instead the game rounds up/down values.
However, it really shouldn't matter in this specific case, as any potential rounding up/down would constitute a difference in damage of no more than 2-3 points,
which is really insignificant, given that we're dealing with monsters with nearly a 1000 (thousand) life points.

---

OK...

A Hell Ghoul Lord (Arcane Sanctuary) has 75% Cold Resistance.

Thus, theoretically,
lvl 17 CM, with 82 pierce should bring that down to 13.5 %
lvl 18 CM, with 83 pierce should bring that down to 12.75 %
lvl 19 CM, with 84 pierce should bring that down to 12 %
lvl 20 CM, with 85 pierce should bring that down to 11.25 %

Thus, theoretically,
at each of the 4 separate stages outlined above, near the start of my post, the situation would be thus:

1) GS 23, CM 17 -- GS would deal 86.5 % of its damage, or 147.05 - 153.97 -- an average of 150.5
2) GS 24, CM 18 -- GS would deal 87.25 % of its damage, or 154.43 - 161.41 -- an average of 157.92
3) GS 24, CM 19 -- GS would deal 88 % of its damage, or 155.76 - 162.8 -- an average of 159.28
4) GS 24, CM 20 -- GS would deal 88.75 % of its damage, or 157.09 - 164.19 -- an average of 160.64

SO...

compared to the first stage, the FOURTH stage sees roughly a 7% increase in its damage output...

...AND YET, THE SPELL-DAMGE BEHAVIOUR SEEMS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME !!!

??? WHAT'S GOING ON HERE ???

---

According to my pre-LoD D2 booklet, Hell Ghoul Lord's life points are between 694 and 954, depending on the level (which is not listed explicitly).

Now, presumably, since the Arcane Sanctuary is the earliest location at which Ghoul Lords can be found, that should mean that this particular version of Ghoul Lords should have the amount of life that is near this lower boundary -- 694,
whereas Ghoul Lords found in Tal Rasha's Tomb(s) should possess an amount of life that is nearing the UPPER boundary of 954.

Thus, theoretically, regardless of which of the above-elaborated stages I'm at, I should be taking down Arcane Sanctuary Ghoul Lords in NO MORE THAN 5 (FIVE) glacial spikes.

Yet, PRACTICALLY, the situation is that I need AT LEAST 5 (FIVE) glacial spikes.

...

WHAT IS MORE, even if we accept that Arcane Sanctuary Ghoul Lords have the MAXIMUM amount of life possible, 954,
(which really shouldn't be the case at all, as that value should be reserved for their higher-level counterparts found in Tal Rasha's tomb),
then I would still need NO MORE THAN 6 (SIX) glacial spikes to take them down, when at stage 4...

Yet, as can be seen from the practical application, this is not the case, and I sometimes require 7 (Seven) GS's... no different than Stage 1 at all !!

---

VERDICT:

The maths / numbers game of pre-LoD D2 is ALL WRONG.

What is wrtten does not correspond at all to what actually is.

---

Q.E.D.

-

This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Jul 16 2022 06:42pm

-
Just a quick chime-in:

Ghoul Lords found in Tal Rasha's Tomb(s) are just as durable as those found in the Arcane Sanctuary.

Even though they are (supposedly) higher level, and my Classic Dablo 2 booklet which I've had since 2000 clearly says that they can have variations in ther amount of life points:
from "694" to "954".

As evidenced from my experiments elaborated above, however, it is evident that neither can be the case...

...which does lead to the idea that the listed resistance values aren't correct either...

Sigh.

-



This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Jul 19 2022 01:49am

-

Just a quick update:




-

I was lucky enough to find a staff that, besides the +2 to Sorc Skills mod, also gave a +1 to Glacial Spike.

Previously, my staff was a +2 to sorc skills / +2 to teleport one.

So now, I have a fifth stage of a mode of attack:

5) GS 25, CM 20

Level 25 Glacial Spike deals 184-192 damage.

---



-

You would think that, now that I have upped my damage even more, by ONE WHOLE BASE LEVEL OF MY ATTACK SKILL,
the scenario where the Ghoul Lord would take 7 Glacial Spikes to die would be eliminated?
Right?

..

RIGHT?

...

WRONG.

Sometimes, though admittedly more rarely than was the case with stages 1, 2, and 3, he would STILL take 7 Glacial Spikes to die.

...

Time for math again...

---



-

5) GS 25, CM 20 -- GS would deal 88.75 % of its damage, or 163.3 - 170.4 -- an average of 166.85

compared to the FOURTH stage, the FIFTH stage sees roughly a 4% increase in its damage output...

Nothing too special...

...BUT...

compared to the FIRST stage, the FIFTH stage sees roughly a 11% increase in its damage output...

-

...AND YET, THE OUTCOME / SCENARIO WHERE THE GHOUL LORD WOULD TAKE 7 (SEVEN!!) GLACIAL SPIKES TO TAKE DOWN IS STILL NOT ELIMINATED !!!

---

How can that be possible?

-

Well, refer to the final verdict of my previous long post:

-



Q.E.D.


---


P.S. Now, let me be fair, though:

I did eventually level up 2 more times, levelling up Cold Mastery 2 more times.

Eventually, this scenario with the Ghoul Lord taking 7 GS's to kill was (seemingly?) completely eliminated.

More on that later...

This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Aug 3 2022 10:18am

dun dun DUUUUUUUUUN

Sounds like why they patched it?

Diablogy professor, Joey

-

After ~3 hours of repeated abuse of copy-pasting saves for getting that OPTIMAL imbue from Charsi, I am happy to present this:






Now, to be frank, it's not what I most wanted: +2 skills, +3 glacial, AND Fastest Cast Rate...

I did get some other staffs that had +2 skills, +1 glacial (for example...) AND FCR,

but I ultimately decided that I wanted to have the absolute MAX for SKILLS.

---

NOW there's only one thing that's left to find to achieve my desired build:

A +2 to Sorc skills ammy. (currently wearing a very good rare +1 to sorc skills one with 2 resistances and life to boot... it's honestly scary good)

Only one thing in the game can drop it: Hell Diablo.

---

P.S. So, yes, I do have every other item of skill boost possible for this build: 2 SoJ's, Silks of the Victor and Tarnhelm plus the +1 sorc skills rare ammy.

If anyone else is curious for the rest of my items:

Gloves are Frostburns. Really NEED that mana.
The SoJs alone are not enough to sustain the 80 mana per cast that Frozen Orb costs lol
Despite its supposed "strength", it really is a skill that you need to spam for it to kill.

Boots are Fastest R/W + 37% fire res + 17 life
Belt is Cold/Light res + 19 life + Fastest HR (absolutely REQUIRED, considering I don't have frost armor and can get trapped easily if I accidentally tele into the wrong crowd)


For Chaos Sanctuary, I ditch the Silks of the Victor and put on GOLDSKIN instead.
Otherwise the Abyss Knights and Mages will absolutely melt me with their elemental damage, despite my ~700 life.
Yes, my skills are slightly weaker that way, but it's a necessity... :S

-

This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Aug 16 2022 09:33pm

-

Just an update with a few quick notes:


===============


*


Cold Mastery caps at -91 percent reduced enemy cold resistance at level 27.

How do I know?
Well, if I peruse a Skill Shrine (+2 all skills), it will get brought up to level 29 and STILL be at -91 percent reduced enemy cold resistance.

Then, the tooltip says:


"Next Level" in this case is 30.

I have yet to find a +2 to sorc skills ammy. With it, I can see how level 31 will look like for CM, but it's still something that I can't achieve practically anyway.

...

So, unless the skill is really weird in a way and suddenly decides to go to -92 at like level 40 or whatever, then we're at the max.

However, this is all theoreitcal, as PRACTICALLY, the max level that can be achieved for a skill is 34, and it HAS to be this way:

* Has to be a SORC fire skill; you'll see WHY down below.
* Have to wear a staff with +2 sorc skills, +3 specified skill
* 2 x SoJs
* +2 to sorc skills ammy
* Tarnhelm
* Silks of the Victor
* MAGEFIST (+1 fire skills; there are NO items in the game that would give + any singular skill tree or a specific set of skills OTHER THAN FIRE SKILLS)
* Skill Shrine

So we have:

* +5 to the skill from staff
* +2 from the SoJs
* +2 from Ammy
* +1 from Tarnhelm
* +1 from Silks
* +1 from Magefist
* +2 from Skill Shrine

That's +14 total, added to the max'd base of 20.

34

.


===============


*


Yet another demonstration of just how BROKEN D2's math engine is:

At level 76, going onto level 77, suddenly Experience Gain from my usual XP route is DRASTICALLY reduced.

You see, what I've done to level so far, ever since I completed the game at level 55 was:
Arcane Sanctuary + Canyon of the Magi + All Tombs + Entire Act IV.

Until now, typically such a run would fetch me an entire level (+/- around 10% of the XP bar), provided I don't die.

However, ever since I hit level 76, I now only get something like 1/3 of a level from completing such a run.

...

Now, this is naturally explained by two known things and 1 unknown one:

1) Act 2's monsters are now below my +/- 5 levels optimal XP gain level gap. (max level for an act 2 monsters is 70, not counting Duriel who is 72)
2) The XP progression between levels has risen dramatically. DUH.
3) Similarly to LoD (presumably? no sources on this one...), Diablo 2's leveling system starts to enforce an XP penalty that is BEYOND the level difference between you and the monsters.
(In LoD, this starts occurring at level 70, where you simply start to gain less XP from the enemies that you kill, REGARDLESS of the level difference).

HOWEVER, this is only a partial explanation, and here's why:

1) Act 4's monsters were actually way above my optimal XP gain level gap in previous runs. It wasn't until only recently (like, level 69 or so) that I even BEGAN to enter their level interval.
Lowest level for an Act 4 monster is 74, whereas highest is 82 (not counting Diablo who is 90).
As you can see, until recently, I was actually getting ripped off hard from killing such monsters.
Yet, the XP pouring in was in no short supply!

2) Yes, XP required to reach the next level rises dramatically, but it's not really THAT much.
For example, it takes 3.3 M experience to reach level 75, and 3.6 M experience to reach level 76.
That's only a 10% increase in XP gain needed.
However, if I could complete the 74 -> 75 progression in just over a run, now the 75 -> 76 progression takes me 3+ runs to complete.

3) If there even is an XP gain penalty in Classic (and, again, there are NO SOURCES that even mention this AT ALL...),
then it would be extremely weird that it kicks in at level 76...
Like... why not 75? Or 70?

---

NOTHING can explain this;
And in fact, now I should be levelling up EVEN FASTER, because I'm closer in levels to those precious high-XP-yielding level 75+ monsters than I was before.

You see, even at my lower levels, the Arcane Sanctuary + Canyon + Tombs only constituted the lesser part of my overall XP progress for my run.
Compared to the Xp gained from the entirety of Act IV, they provided something like... 1/3 of its XP, maybe? That is normal, and is fine.

Now they grant almost nothing, compared to what I gain from Act IV. That is understood, and is well.

Now, Act 4 should be granting even more XP to me now than it did before, not just in absolute value, but also in RELATIVE value with regards to the overall XP bar.
Because, mathematically, the additional XP I gain in percentage, due to my level getting closer to the Monsters' levels,
is MORE than the % XP increase that is required to level up to the next level compared to the amount that was needed to achieve this level.

It doesn't.

Why?



BECAUSE THE GAME'S MATH ENGINE IS A MESS, THAT'S WHY.



(or, alternatively, due to some ludicrous reason, an XP penalty starts to get enforced at... level 76, out of all levels...)


===============


*

I have an update on a previous issue that I talked about:




NEVER did figure this one out eventually. I eventually just skilled Telekinesis + Teleport, as I had points to spare.


HOWEVER, I did get a chance to get my hands on a staff that had +2 to sorc skills and +2 to Shiver Armor.

Similarly to the previous scenario where I (initially) did not have any points skilled into Teleport,
this time also I do not have any points skilled into Shiver Armor.

Well, guess what the level of Shiver Armor is that I get from the staff?

...

......

2? (TWO?)

...

.....

.........

WRONG.

...

....

.....



4 (FOUR)



===================



I'm telling you, mateys: This game is just so WRONG, on SO MANY LEVELS,

that I can't help but ask the disturbing question:

Just HOW MANY THINGS in modern LoD (or D2R) look "fine" on the surface, but deep down really are TERRIBLY broken?

---

This post was edited by LaughingSkull on Aug 28 2022 05:47pm

they should update the tooltips to be correct, this is unacceptable
makes my 1.0.6b walkthrough worthless
gg

-



Your attempt at sarcasm is really inappropriate.

It entirely misses the whole point I was trying to make with my big post in the first place.

Namely:



.