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Bigheaded
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Jun 3 2022 06:42am
Quote (izParagonzi @ Jun 3 2022 09:32am)
My apologies, thus the reason at times while reading some posts, I will alter the post grammatically (example: adding in comma's and speech marks etc) like one of my last replies to your post, so that I can try to read it how YOU may have meant it to be read... this helps with ensuring that we are on the same track.


You will probably need to do that a lot with me, as my mind is going faster than my fingers are typing. So wading through my posts can also be difficult.

Quote
Well to be more precise, you will have to also test the opposite because the closer you are to the ratio, increases your CHANCE of a Critical Hit based on the information in the portals for each weapon, and when the update included "Ratios" to weapons to deal a Critical Hit, instead of previously where the coding made Dexterity the DOMINANT factor of melee attacks dealing a Critical Hit (Double Damage).


Jedimagi's testing alone is enough to refute that immediately. Heck even most of your own testing is enough proof of that.

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The red part I do not understand, HOWEVER... your Damage Calculator gives these results for AVERAGE Dmg and DPS.

55/72 using a Tier X Polearm (excluding EE / Rank / PS etc)
... 195.00 Avg Dmg
... 195.00 Avg Dmg + PS
... 108.33 DPS
... 108.33 DPS + QD

55/78 using a Tier X Polearm (excluding EE / Rank / PS etc)
... 200.50 Avg Dmg
... 200.50 Avg Dmg + PS
... 111.39 DPS
... 111.39 DPS + QD

111.39 - 108.33 = 3.06 more DPS

vs what I stipulated about ChC of 0.6% which is negligible since it is rounded down right?


It looks like you think i am already putting some crit calculation into the formula.

Currently the Damage calculator currently does not even attempt to calculate critical hit, it currently presumes you have 0% chance to crit

100% of that damage change is from the increase of damage from the dex adding damage to your weapon. I could quite easily add a number to the side of how much crit you'd like to apply to your current damage, but i'd rather keep it as is until the damage calc will automatically suggest how much crit it thinks you have. In terms of where i got 4 or 5 from, the ratio is 25/75, so 6 dex divided by 4 multiplied by 3 (simple calculation for 75%) gives 4.5, this results in either 4 or 5 damage instances (ignoring bonus instances). Any decimal must be one or the other, and can round in either direction, to do with those green/red charts i made specifically for showing damage instances.

Quote
I just have a different way to take in information compared to others... this is not a fault, or me trying to be a know it all, I am trying to gain a different perspective based on yours or anothers point of view.


Agreed, changing ones perspectives can be difficult at times and being open to it is generally a good thing. This topic is trying to learn more as no-one right now other than Paul say how much crit you should have with a samurai using a dagger at level 55 with 200 dex and 50 strength.
Ideally i'd like for the damage calc to know this as this then leads to item comparisons such as what is stronger, a 52 strength charm or a 40 strength +6 crit charm. The answer for that one is unclear.


One other thing:
If you're helping out and have made your own copy of the sheet, I will not have access to your data until you share it with me, shoot me a PM to do this

This post was edited by Bigheaded on Jun 3 2022 06:44am
izParagonzi
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Jun 3 2022 03:37pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Jun 4 2022 12:42am)
You will probably need to do that a lot with me, as my mind is going faster than my fingers are typing. So wading through my posts can also be difficult.


You and me both. :D

Quote (Bigheaded @ Jun 4 2022 12:42am)
Jedimagi's testing alone is enough to refute that immediately. Heck even most of your own testing is enough proof of that.


With my previous tests I did notice the difference, hence I started to test using the reverse ratio of that weapon, but the damage reduction made this pointless. But, for your testing criteria I will still adjust where I can, since I will save stat points after 100 base vitality to test results better at higher levels (excluding level 77+).

Quote (Bigheaded @ Jun 4 2022 12:42am)
It looks like you think i am already putting some crit calculation into the formula.


No sorry, I was just reflecting base damage numbers of the additional 6 Dexterity vs the 0.6% ChC from your test results, not the damage calculator. I think my presentation and wording wasn't clear about that, sorry for any misunderstandings.

Quote (Bigheaded @ Jun 4 2022 12:42am)
Agreed, changing ones perspectives can be difficult at times and being open to it is generally a good thing. This topic is trying to learn more as no-one right now other than Paul say how much crit you should have with a samurai using a dagger at level 55 with 200 dex and 50 strength.

Ideally i'd like for the damage calc to know this as this then leads to item comparisons such as what is stronger, a 52 strength charm or a 40 strength +6 crit charm. The answer for that one is unclear.


True, I am aware of myself and how my perspective or interpretation can be misleading when I explain things, I am trying to relate this by changing how I approach a topic ... at times I get frustrated because some things I write makes sense to me, but in most cases, it is met with criticism because of how in the past I have expressed things.

Yes, Paul would know the answer, or (what I have been informed of), could check the coding of what some of the other people added to the game mechanics on his behalf.

The addition of ChC ratio and how the Critical Strike modifier is implemented into your Damage Calculator will be extremely beneficial. Can not wait for this addition as it is a better tool than some of the old Guides left in the portal, and can be used with the creation of any upcoming Guides.

Quote (Bigheaded @ Jun 4 2022 12:42am)
One other thing:
If you're helping out and have made your own copy of the sheet, I will not have access to your data until you share it with me, shoot me a PM to do this


YES, I will PM my notes to you about my results. Thanks.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Jun 3 2022 03:40pm
Bigheaded
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Jun 5 2022 07:26am
So some findings and rough interpretation of current results:

75/25 and 25/75 weapons have different crit rates to 10/90 and 90/10 weapons. OR heavy weapons have an increased crit rate (or both)
Using my polearm data and comparing it to daggers as well as club data showed that with less stats to have more crits than clubs or daggers.

Continued trending data that per "wrong stat" or "critical instance" roughly 0.1% crit is gained and continued trend that for each +1 item crit gives +1% chance to crit

Trap Doors appear to significantly impact crit chance, which either means mob level is a factor or the difference between your level and the mob level.




Currently have an assistant helping on high dex clubs and i'm doing high strength daggers, these results should hopefully narrow down how much crit is being gained from wrong stat/critical instances to begin an actual attempt of the formula.
Would like information on staff or sword crits. Even just tracking level 1-20 on two climbs would give me a reasonable indication.
izParagonzi
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Jun 5 2022 03:04pm
Great start, after this will be the ChC with Charms since they don't have identified ratios like weapon ratios from stats. Since charms only operate on Intelligence alone.

Still stuck on same map catacomb... but will get some data for you... when I get back from work in two to three days.

Quote (NR1 @ Jun 6 2022 09:08am)
from what we are aware of at least, maybe we get much higher base crit because of all the other base stats into dex/str?? :D


:rofl: so true.

I am just going on portal information that Weapon Ratios influences the weapons ChC ... it would be a nightmare if it effects charms as well.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Jun 5 2022 03:20pm
NR1
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Jun 5 2022 03:08pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ 5 Jun 2022 23:04)
Great start, after this will be the ChC with Charms since they don't have identified ratios like weapon ratios from stats. Since charms only operate on Intelligence alone.

Still stuck on same map catacomb... but will get some data for you... when I get back from work in two to three days.


from what we are aware of at least, maybe we get much higher base crit because of all the other base stats into dex/str?? :D
Bigheaded
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Jun 5 2022 03:24pm
Quote (NR1 @ Jun 5 2022 10:08pm)
from what we are aware of at least, maybe we get much higher base crit because of all the other base stats into dex/str?? :D


well my 146 vit char had more crits than they should have gotten, still working out where that came from tbh. Presumed it was from weapon choice but who knows.


Hopefully the max strength dagger setup should clarify things a bit more
izParagonzi
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Jun 5 2022 03:32pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Jun 6 2022 09:24am)
well my 146 vit char had more crits than they should have gotten, still working out where that came from tbh. Presumed it was from weapon choice but who knows.


Hopefully the max strength dagger setup should clarify things a bit more


Your testing criteria may have to add in a few things? Maybe it is hidden thing with Prof Rank? (I know it should not matter, but we can never tell, :P )
Bigheaded
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Jun 5 2022 03:34pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Jun 5 2022 10:32pm)
Your testing criteria may have to add in a few things? Maybe it is hidden thing with Prof Rank? (I know it should not matter, but we can never tell, :P )


i am currently "hoping" it isn't prof.

I'll know a hell of a lot more once i have better data on dex clubs and strength daggers, both of which are being ran right now
izParagonzi
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Jun 7 2022 03:46pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Jun 6 2022 09:34am)
i am currently "hoping" it isn't prof.

I'll know a hell of a lot more once i have better data on dex clubs and strength daggers, both of which are being ran right now


Same... anyway, went to send you a small sample. You can either unblock me or just check out our guild thread as I will be posting them their for record keeping, unless you want me to put in the Build section. Oh, let me know if you want me to work on other heavy weapons, since I am working with spear and 30str / 41 dex till level 20, then will re-roll with 30str / 10dex for 20 levels to compare the addition of 30(31) dexterity ratio of spear, and because I am only pumping Vitality, maybe find out if any truth to one of your previous comments.

EDIT: On a side note for Damage Calculator, did you add in "+% Mastery" for Charms like prof?

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Jun 7 2022 03:58pm
Bigheaded
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Jun 7 2022 04:01pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Jun 7 2022 10:46pm)
Same... anyway, went to send you a small sample. You can either unblock me or just check out our guild thread as I will be posting them their for record keeping, unless you want me to put in the Build section. Oh, let me know if you want me to work on other heavy weapons, since I am working with spear and 30str / 41 dex till level 20, then will re-roll with 30str / 10dex for 20 levels to compare the addition of 30(31) dexterity ratio of spear, and because I am only pumping Vitality, maybe find out if any truth to one of your previous comments.

EDIT: On a side note for Damage Calculator, did you add in "+% Mastery" for Charms like prof?


Will let you know if i need prof or not when i know more myself.


sidenote:
nope, could easily do that as it's dead easy to code.
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