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SinsOfTheSun
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Jan 24 2022 11:15pm
Quote (Bugeater @ Jan 24 2022 11:38pm)
its worse than cmoon pvm
its worse than fathom always
its worse than hoto/spirit for es
you cant hit 200 without griff

whats your use case? lol


just like Overpriced you like to compare a single item to many different setups in different scenarios without looking at the defensive stats

look at this :
I can get 9.25k nova with obsession in 2.4 -> infinity + griff + facet in ormus (cuz now you can use ormus since you dont need any str from enigma to wear a monarch so its more life gained here also)
this puts hell cows at -65res

-> 9.25k * 1.65 = 15.26k
guess what? this is enough to 1 hit kill cows
so you'd use cmoon to ''overkill'' them? edit -> with further analyze, both setups 1-hit kill cows at p1-p2, 2hit at p3-p5, 3hit at p6-p8
cmoon gives net zero defensive stats here, but also no fcr, so most of your other gear pieces would need to fix this and would still result in less of everything compared to obsession

is fathom really better?
offensively, I just compared 100% optimal setups for both with same fcr (remember that fathom req 10 extra fcr from gear to reach the same, but also gives on average 15% less -res depending on gear cuz it gives less skill points to mastery unless you cut even more in your defensive stats)
fathom gives 1.07% more dmg output with blizz if it's still able to bring the enemie down to -100 even with less -res (I was fair no? trying to give the advantage to your way of seeing things)
is that 1.07% dmg worth 10fhr, 10fcr, 95 total res, 42%dr, 25% max hp, 20 stats, 30%mana regen, 30%mf, 75% gf? (add more from rest of gear you had to cut to compensate)

other important info you must digest : 105%fcr will be the new meta for most builds now that casting delays have been removed between each spells. You'll have to learn to alternate between 2 spells to effectively cast close to 2x faster with the new 105fcr setup vs the old 200fcr setup

and lastly, yes, this is not a staff made for ES
we cant have it all right? well in this case we have almost it all but not for ES you're right!

Is Obsession BiS? In most scenarios, yes, definetly.
Is it BiS in some very specific scenarios where only dmg matters and where 1 setup would do good at this specific purpose but would need to be adapted to perform well eslewhere? Not always, it can be surpassed by a very minor margin by glass canon setups in specific scenarios if we dont look at the massive difference in defensive stats.

This post was edited by SinsOfTheSun on Jan 24 2022 11:24pm
Kip_OS
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Jan 24 2022 11:18pm
Quote (Overpriced @ Jan 24 2022 04:27pm)
Is worse than hoto+spirit for ES
Is worse than Eschutas + spirit for fire
Is worse than Eschutas + spirit for lightning
Is worse than fathom + spirit for cold


Geez dude mimimi some more plz

This post was edited by Kip_OS on Jan 24 2022 11:19pm
Bui6Pays40Percent4Wins
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Jan 24 2022 11:57pm
Quote (SinsOfTheSun @ Jan 24 2022 11:15pm)
just like Overpriced you like to compare a single item to many different setups in different scenarios without looking at the defensive stats

look at this :
I can get 9.25k nova with obsession in 2.4 -> infinity + griff + facet in ormus (cuz now you can use ormus since you dont need any str from enigma to wear a monarch so its more life gained here also)
this puts hell cows at -65res

-> 9.25k * 1.65 = 15.26k
guess what? this is enough to 1 hit kill cows
so you'd use cmoon to ''overkill'' them? edit -> with further analyze, both setups 1-hit kill cows at p1-p2, 2hit at p3-p5, 3hit at p6-p8
cmoon gives net zero defensive stats here, but also no fcr, so most of your other gear pieces would need to fix this and would still result in less of everything compared to obsession

is fathom really better?
offensively, I just compared 100% optimal setups for both with same fcr (remember that fathom req 10 extra fcr from gear to reach the same, but also gives on average 15% less -res depending on gear cuz it gives less skill points to mastery unless you cut even more in your defensive stats)
fathom gives 1.07% more dmg output with blizz if it's still able to bring the enemie down to -100 even with less -res (I was fair no? trying to give the advantage to your way of seeing things)
is that 1.07% dmg worth 10fhr, 10fcr, 95 total res, 42%dr, 25% max hp, 20 stats, 30%mana regen, 30%mf, 75% gf? (add more from rest of gear you had to cut to compensate)

other important info you must digest : 105%fcr will be the new meta for most builds now that casting delays have been removed between each spells. You'll have to learn to alternate between 2 spells to effectively cast close to 2x faster with the new 105fcr setup vs the old 200fcr setup

and lastly, yes, this is not a staff made for ES
we cant have it all right? well in this case we have almost it all but not for ES you're right!

Is Obsession BiS? In most scenarios, yes, definetly.
Is it BiS in some very specific scenarios where only dmg matters and where 1 setup would do good at this specific purpose but would need to be adapted to perform well eslewhere? Not always, it can be surpassed by a very minor margin by glass canon setups in specific scenarios if we dont look at the massive difference in defensive stats.



Is obsesssions BiS? Never
Is obsesssion for early ladder? No


Obsessions fits no niche
Bugeater
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Jan 25 2022 12:08am
Quote (SinsOfTheSun @ 24 Jan 2022 23:15)
just like Overpriced you like to compare a single item to many different setups in different scenarios without looking at the defensive stats

look at this :
I can get 9.25k nova with obsession in 2.4 -> infinity + griff + facet in ormus (cuz now you can use ormus since you dont need any str from enigma to wear a monarch so its more life gained here also)
this puts hell cows at -65res

-> 9.25k * 1.65 = 15.26k
guess what? this is enough to 1 hit kill cows
so you'd use cmoon to ''overkill'' them? edit -> with further analyze, both setups 1-hit kill cows at p1-p2, 2hit at p3-p5, 3hit at p6-p8
cmoon gives net zero defensive stats here, but also no fcr, so most of your other gear pieces would need to fix this and would still result in less of everything compared to obsession

is fathom really better?
offensively, I just compared 100% optimal setups for both with same fcr (remember that fathom req 10 extra fcr from gear to reach the same, but also gives on average 15% less -res depending on gear cuz it gives less skill points to mastery unless you cut even more in your defensive stats)
fathom gives 1.07% more dmg output with blizz if it's still able to bring the enemie down to -100 even with less -res (I was fair no? trying to give the advantage to your way of seeing things)
is that 1.07% dmg worth 10fhr, 10fcr, 95 total res, 42%dr, 25% max hp, 20 stats, 30%mana regen, 30%mf, 75% gf? (add more from rest of gear you had to cut to compensate)

other important info you must digest : 105%fcr will be the new meta for most builds now that casting delays have been removed between each spells. You'll have to learn to alternate between 2 spells to effectively cast close to 2x faster with the new 105fcr setup vs the old 200fcr setup

and lastly, yes, this is not a staff made for ES
we cant have it all right? well in this case we have almost it all but not for ES you're right!

Is Obsession BiS? In most scenarios, yes, definetly.
Is it BiS in some very specific scenarios where only dmg matters and where 1 setup would do good at this specific purpose but would need to be adapted to perform well eslewhere? Not always, it can be surpassed by a very minor margin by glass canon setups in specific scenarios if we dont look at the massive difference in defensive stats.


i dont need more damage to kill cows, cows are always going to die quickly. compare damage vs something where infinity breaks the immunity (p8 grand vizier maybe?). that where it matters pvm, thats what determines clear speed, and thats why cmoon is better

and are you really trying to tell me +4 blizz is better than 30% cold damage? the +4 mastery is irrelevant, in pvm you have enough to put things at -100 anyway and in pvp people are going to outstack you anyway

yes, obsession is better defensively - i dont care, dying isn't an issue, killing faster is. AND if i was worried about defense i wouldn't be using a staff, i'd be using stormshield.

This post was edited by Bugeater on Jan 25 2022 12:11am
Bui6Pays40Percent4Wins
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Jan 25 2022 12:17am
Quote (Bugeater @ Jan 25 2022 12:08am)
i dont need more damage to kill cows, cows are always going to die quickly. compare damage vs something where infinity breaks the immunity (p8 grand vizier maybe?). that where it matters pvm, thats what determines clear speed, and thats why cmoon is better

and are you really trying to tell me +4 blizz is better than 30% cold damage? the +4 mastery is irrelevant, in pvm you have enough to put things at -100 anyway and in pvp people are going to outstack you anyway

yes, obsession is better defensively - i dont care, dying isn't an issue, killing faster is. AND if i was worried about defense i wouldn't be using a staff, i'd be using stormshield.



It’s only 2 more blizz. Not 4 :)

And it’s 35% damage with facet :)
Bugeater
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Jan 25 2022 12:23am
Quote (Overpriced @ 25 Jan 2022 00:17)
It’s only 2 more blizz. Not 4 :)

And it’s 35% damage with facet :)


i dont always facet it, but your right, i wasn't even counting spirit lol
LordHextor
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Jan 25 2022 01:36am
This staff is not for cows...
iFormus
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Jan 25 2022 03:03am
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