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Bigheaded
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May 18 2022 10:55am
Quote (izParagonzi @ May 18 2022 12:18pm)
Have a question for your "Damage Calculator" and the "Results"

Longsword & Battleaxe Average damage is the same no matter the Tier / Rank you have... difference being Stats which YOUR calculator exhibits. NOTE: the following may also help you with the BEST type of weapon to use versus the information that has been given in the portals that Paul has supplied.

Posting "stat" / "enhanced effect" and the same tier level of the weapon that your calculator provides vs the AVG dmg.

Tier X (Level 35) Longsword vs Battle-Axe: Both with 124% Enhanced Effect and Rank 4 (4% Enhanced Effect)
Strength: 73
Dexterity: 36

Longsword Results: AVG Dmg = 433 / DPS 240.56
Battle-Axe Results: AVG Dmg = 406 / DPS 225.56

Now I am going to REVERSE the STAT placement:

Longsword Results: AVG Dmg = 378 / DPS 210.00
Battle-Axe Results: AVG Dmg = 406 / DPS 225.56

Okay... now, the Battle-Axe shows the consistency of average damage, BUT, in reality you are better using a Longsword (or Sword vs Axe for average dmg with stats).

It is amazing how many people put a higher value on something that is actually dealing LESS dmg per second because of CONSISTENCY.

Oh thank you for the "Damage Calculator". :rofl: mao.


not sure what your question is, this is working as intended.
when using more strength than dex on a longsword which has 75/25 ratio, it does more damage than a battle axe which is 50/50.
When using a bad ratio for strength/dex it did less damage than the battleaxe.


also worth noting the battleaxe didn't care. as it's 50/50 so both stats work

main thing to point out is that seeing not enough information is known about critical hit that the numbers are slightly out for that reason, as i bet that battleaxe crits more often than the sword.
izParagonzi
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May 18 2022 03:36pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ May 19 2022 04:55am)
not sure what your question is, this is working as intended.
when using more strength than dex on a longsword which has 75/25 ratio, it does more damage than a battle axe which is 50/50.
When using a bad ratio for strength/dex it did less damage than the battleaxe.


also worth noting the battleaxe didn't care. as it's 50/50 so both stats work

main thing to point out is that seeing not enough information is known about critical hit that the numbers are slightly out for that reason, as i bet that battleaxe crits more often than the sword.


Okay that is understandable. I will put it this way.

Tier X Axe = 52.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
Tier X Sword = 52.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
Add in 73 Strength:
... Tier X Axe = 77.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
... Tier X Sword = 89.00 Avg Dmg / DPS

This alone means that when using Strength as a Main Stat, you are better off using a Sword over using an Axe. Now, this should also apply when using a Staff vs using an Axe with Dexterity.

Tier X Axe = 77.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
Tier X Staff = 88.50 Avg Dmg / DPS

Now that is Different by 0.50 less Dmg / DPS, but Staff is better damage than using an Axe.

So, when a person has Strength items, they are better off using Sword over Axe, or Dex items using Staff over Axe, thus Swords actually do more damage than the same tier Axe.

So, if you want to reach 89.00 average damage that a level 35 sword does with 73 strength and 0 dexterity you would need to have an extra 35 Strength or 36 Dexterity.

So strength items and using swords are way better than using strength items and an Axe. I however wonder why the Staff deals less Average damage considering the Ratio 25/75 is only the reverse of using a Sword 75/25.

So basically Swords are better than Axes.

izParagonzi
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May 18 2022 04:26pm
Could not EDIT sorry.

So, does the increase of Critical Hit chance of using an Axe compete with the Swords extra 12.00 Avg damage?

EDIT: 35 extra strength towards the Tier X sword would increase the average damage to 107.50 (- 89.00 = 18.50)

Just posting your Calculator link for this Page:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RDkoYfhQSyWW0KNRYTAWZRLxVfeYGgj-nwqOwtgtSOs/edit#gid=0

This post was edited by izParagonzi on May 18 2022 04:40pm
Bigheaded
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May 18 2022 11:40pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ May 18 2022 11:26pm)
So, does the increase of Critical Hit chance of using an Axe compete with the Swords extra 12.00 Avg damage?

Just posting your Calculator link for this Page:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RDkoYfhQSyWW0KNRYTAWZRLxVfeYGgj-nwqOwtgtSOs/edit#gid=0


no way to know until we have concrete data on critical hits.

Quote (izParagonzi @ May 18 2022 10:36pm)
Okay that is understandable. I will put it this way.

Tier X Axe = 52.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
Tier X Sword = 52.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
Add in 73 Strength:
... Tier X Axe = 77.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
... Tier X Sword = 89.00 Avg Dmg / DPS

This alone means that when using Strength as a Main Stat, you are better off using a Sword over using an Axe. Now, this should also apply when using a Staff vs using an Axe with Dexterity.

Tier X Axe = 77.00 Avg Dmg / DPS
Tier X Staff = 88.50 Avg Dmg / DPS

Now that is Different by 0.50 less Dmg / DPS, but Staff is better damage than using an Axe.

So, when a person has Strength items, they are better off using Sword over Axe, or Dex items using Staff over Axe, thus Swords actually do more damage than the same tier Axe.

So, if you want to reach 89.00 average damage that a level 35 sword does with 73 strength and 0 dexterity you would need to have an extra 35 Strength or 36 Dexterity.

So strength items and using swords are way better than using strength items and an Axe. I however wonder why the Staff deals less Average damage considering the Ratio 25/75 is only the reverse of using a Sword 75/25.

So basically Swords are better than Axes.


think you made a mistake on the sword/staff thing. both deal same amount of damage if you have reversed str/dex stats.
so a 100ee lvl 25 sword 100 str 50 dex is = 100ee lvl 25 staff 100 dex, 50 str. I'd be interested if you could find a situation where this isn't the case.



The main way to look at it is that it's more common to use items which are single stat of either high strength or high dex.
The more skewed the ratio the better the item is at using that stat. so for strength club > sword > axe > staff > dagger. Using full Dexterity is the reverse where dagger > staff > axe > sword > club
Same for heavies, for strength warhammer > longsword > battleaxe > polearm > spear and reversed for dex

The most interesting thing is if you use 100str/100dex, every single weapon does the same average damage. This also makes sense logically, as all ratio's add up to 100%
izParagonzi
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May 19 2022 12:29am
Quote (Bigheaded @ May 19 2022 05:40pm)
no way to know until we have concrete data on critical hits.



think you made a mistake on the sword/staff thing. both deal same amount of damage if you have reversed str/dex stats.
so a 100ee lvl 25 sword 100 str 50 dex is = 100ee lvl 25 staff 100 dex, 50 str. I'd be interested if you could find a situation where this isn't the case.



The main way to look at it is that it's more common to use items which are single stat of either high strength or high dex.
The more skewed the ratio the better the item is at using that stat. so for strength club > sword > axe > staff > dagger. Using full Dexterity is the reverse where dagger > staff > axe > sword > club
Same for heavies, for strength warhammer > longsword > battleaxe > polearm > spear and reversed for dex

The most interesting thing is if you use 100str/100dex, every single weapon does the same average damage. This also makes sense logically, as all ratio's add up to 100%


Only posting the calculations the Damage Calculator provides... just do your own testing.
Bigheaded
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May 19 2022 05:49am
Quote (izParagonzi @ May 19 2022 07:29am)
Only posting the calculations the Damage Calculator provides... just do your own testing.


Well I did the test.

What parameters were you using which had swords deal more than staffs?

Did multiple tests myself and all came out the same

This post was edited by Bigheaded on May 19 2022 05:52am
izParagonzi
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May 19 2022 06:20am
Quote (Bigheaded @ May 19 2022 11:49pm)
Well I did the test.

What parameters were you using which had swords deal more than staffs?

Did multiple tests myself and all came out the same


If you read what I posted, you would realise(realize) where I was coming from. Here is a breakdown step by step.

Weapon Tier = X (level 35)
... Sword
... Staff
... Axe
... ... No matter the stat / enhanced effect you should have the same AVG / DPS for that weapon type.

Now... when comparing the AVG dmg / DPS and 73 Stat placement based on the weapons Ratio VERSUS an Axe with 50/50 Ratio, you will see the difference... HOWEVER;

73 Strength (Sword / Axe) & 0 Dex = 89.00 Avg / DPS (Axe = 77.00 Avg / DPS)
73 Dexterity (Staff / Axe) & 0 Str= 88.50 Avg / DPS (Axe = 77.00 Avg / DPS)

Hence something seems fishy when sword ratio is 75/25, and staff ratio is 25/75.
izParagonzi
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May 19 2022 08:04pm
Great, now people will use the Calculator more. Even more useful than before.
Bigheaded
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May 20 2022 05:59am
Quote (izParagonzi @ May 19 2022 01:20pm)
If you read what I posted, you would realise(realize) where I was coming from. Here is a breakdown step by step.

Weapon Tier = X (level 35)
... Sword
... Staff
... Axe
... ... No matter the stat / enhanced effect you should have the same AVG / DPS for that weapon type.

Now... when comparing the AVG dmg / DPS and 73 Stat placement based on the weapons Ratio VERSUS an Axe with 50/50 Ratio, you will see the difference... HOWEVER;

73 Strength (Sword / Axe) & 0 Dex = 89.00 Avg / DPS (Axe = 77.00 Avg / DPS)
73 Dexterity (Staff / Axe) & 0 Str= 88.50 Avg / DPS (Axe = 77.00 Avg / DPS)

Hence something seems fishy when sword ratio is 75/25, and staff ratio is 25/75.


Thanks. Had a look and it's to do with the way the game rounds down values. Not a bug and is accurate to how it would perform in game. Other than the fact the dps value ignores crit armor pierce, mob defense and a few other modifiers as not enough information is available for me to add these with any form of accuracy. Dps is mostly there for seeing how good quickdraw is and comparing heavies to standard weapons in an easy to read format


If enough people get interested and are willing to put the testing in maybe one day they'll get added.
izParagonzi
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May 20 2022 11:48pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ May 20 2022 11:59pm)
Thanks. Had a look and it's to do with the way the game rounds down values. Not a bug and is accurate to how it would perform in game. Other than the fact the dps value ignores crit armor pierce, mob defense and a few other modifiers as not enough information is available for me to add these with any form of accuracy. Dps is mostly there for seeing how good quickdraw is and comparing heavies to standard weapons in an easy to read format


If enough people get interested and are willing to put the testing in maybe one day they'll get added.


Thanks. I have been thinking a bit more on this, and with coding, the rounding would not alter the average/dps of the staff. ONLY thing that I can ascertain this happening is prior to "ratios" being added to the game and "dexterity" items a benefit to "Critical Hit Chance" (ChC) and the introductions of "Ratios" and the coding behind it, altered something with coding.

Hey, just speculation, but there are many old players out of myself that can enlighten you on what I have stated... simply put... 75/25 vs 25/75 and coding using the same formula would NOT adjust rounding down if they were identical / opposite.
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