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Bigheaded
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Jan 29 2022 11:27am
Quote
Critical Strike:

Following is just speculation, Critical Strike (CS) increases your chance to deal double damage. Charms & Weapons benefit from this Mod.

Charm damage is only based on one(1) stat: Intelligence. This stat increases damage.
Weapon damage is based on two(2) stat(s): Strength or Dexterity, and the consensus is that Critical Hit chance is based on OFF of the lower stat ratio (75/25... 25/75... 90/10... 10/90... etc) from previous testing, and also the # of CS = X amount of so-n-so stat.

I think for testing, it is better to just use charms and the mod CS to give you more of a decisive answer.


Lets arguably say i do get a formula for that, it only gives me the formula for intel though and i'd need to redo everything to then get the other items. I'd prefer to do it the other way, i.e get some idea of a logical formula for the other weapons then apply the same formula to casting.

Quote
Critical Hit chance is based on OFF of the lower stat ratio

There was sufficient evidence that statting the main stat also affected crit, so having 250 strength on a sword provided more crit than only 150 strength on a sword with same amount of dex.



My first suggested formula would be that the same green/red tables from post 1 are used, but instead of green ones adding damage, red ones add crit chance. I'll probably name them Crit Instances or CI to avoid confusing where i just say instance instead of damage instance.

However suggested each CI is +1% crit is going to be wrong, but 0.1% each with rounddown gets closer to what i'm expecting. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a -5 involved as well, otherwise at level 1 all classes would start with about a 5-10% chance to crit with most weapons.

Given that hypothesis my first guess at the formula

(CI * 0.1) - 5 + Crit (from items) = crit chance, presumably rounded down.
I have no clue whether or not level should be accounted for. This formula is definitely wrong but i believe it's somewhere along those lines.
Just a case of inputting all the data that i'm aware of and seeing how far out the formula is to the data and amend the formula accordingly to match it up. Then do some testing of my own to ensure it's somewhere handy then query some others to trial it.
izParagonzi
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Jan 29 2022 05:29pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Jan 30 2022 06:27am)
Lets arguably say i do get a formula for that, it only gives me the formula for intel though and i'd need to redo everything to then get the other items. I'd prefer to do it the other way, i.e get some idea of a logical formula for the other weapons then apply the same formula to casting.


There was sufficient evidence that statting the main stat also affected crit, so having 250 strength on a sword provided more crit than only 150 strength on a sword with same amount of dex.



My first suggested formula would be that the same green/red tables from post 1 are used, but instead of green ones adding damage, red ones add crit chance. I'll probably name them Crit Instances or CI to avoid confusing where i just say instance instead of damage instance.

However suggested each CI is +1% crit is going to be wrong, but 0.1% each with rounddown gets closer to what i'm expecting. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a -5 involved as well, otherwise at level 1 all classes would start with about a 5-10% chance to crit with most weapons.

Given that hypothesis my first guess at the formula

(CI * 0.1) - 5 + Crit (from items) = crit chance, presumably rounded down.
I have no clue whether or not level should be accounted for. This formula is definitely wrong but i believe it's somewhere along those lines.
Just a case of inputting all the data that i'm aware of and seeing how far out the formula is to the data and amend the formula accordingly to match it up. Then do some testing of my own to ensure it's somewhere handy then query some others to trial it.


Maybe I should rephrase it:

Weapon Critical Hit Chance is based on your Ratio (Stats: Dex / Str)
Charm Critical Hit Chance is base on your Intelligence only.
Critical Strike MOD on items increases your CHANCE to do a Critical Hit (INDEPENDENT of your stats)
Bigheaded
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Jan 29 2022 05:32pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Jan 29 2022 11:29pm)
Maybe I should rephrase it:

Weapon Critical Hit Chance is based on your Ratio (Stats: Dex / Str)
Charm Critical Hit Chance is base on your Intelligence only.
Critical Strike MOD on items increases your CHANCE to do a Critical Hit (INDEPENDENT of your stats)


i believe this was obvious for everyone.
izParagonzi
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Jan 30 2022 03:03am
Quote (Bigheaded @ Jan 30 2022 12:32pm)
i believe this was obvious for everyone.


Hence the reason why I stated to test it out on charms first because of one(1) stat value and decipher the % chance increase from the Mod "Critical Strike".

Trying to decipher it from a weapon "Ratio" gives you false data.

Isn't that right "Captain Obvious" statement you made.
Bigheaded
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Jan 30 2022 05:30am
Quote
Hence the reason why I stated to test it out on charms first because of one(1) stat value and decipher the % chance increase from the Mod "Critical Strike".

Trying to decipher it from a weapon "Ratio" gives you false data.

Isn't that right "Captain Obvious" statement you made.


can you just leave this topic? you're not even remotely helpful. Already explained that if i do a calc for the charm crit, it doesnt mean it will work for weapon crit as we're unsure how the ratios will fully affect things.
Doing it the other way is much more likely to result in a formula which is consistent.
It's possible that the two formulas are completely different anyway, especially seeing how likely charms are to crit.
Lastly i'd rather do the weapon crit as i'm much more interested in how that works.

IF you're willing to do something productive, such as putting any critical strike information into a googlesheet where i can actually evaluate it similar to this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DDVq5aE4510_jHwJCZ_IcNyz7GfxU-53McfWQiLsm5M/edit?usp=sharing
Otherwise avoid replying here, nothing wrong with your suggestion but it doesnt help in any way whatsoever.
izParagonzi
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Jan 30 2022 02:40pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Jan 31 2022 12:30am)
can you just leave this topic? you're not even remotely helpful. Already explained that if i do a calc for the charm crit, it doesnt mean it will work for weapon crit as we're unsure how the ratios will fully affect things.
Doing it the other way is much more likely to result in a formula which is consistent.
It's possible that the two formulas are completely different anyway, especially seeing how likely charms are to crit.
Lastly i'd rather do the weapon crit as i'm much more interested in how that works.

IF you're willing to do something productive, such as putting any critical strike information into a googlesheet where i can actually evaluate it similar to this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DDVq5aE4510_jHwJCZ_IcNyz7GfxU-53McfWQiLsm5M/edit?usp=sharing
Otherwise avoid replying here, nothing wrong with your suggestion but it doesnt help in any way whatsoever.


You already have MORE than enough raw data from this link (starting on page 3 where I added my tests) : https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=80541143&f=74&o=20

There isn't much difference, % out of 100 attacks, Strength & Dexterity included and the weapon type *(edited time to type) AND, mostly based on the ratios of the stat, all you need to do is to TEST out the same base stat(s) with the same type of weapon BUT add in Critical Strike items while keeping the same stat value... the level means jack shit t this stage, but (BUT) I believe I have also added those numbers into my tests. You just need to go through them, re-test a few with your gear and add in the Critical Strike mods.

Also, this is what I posted earlier in this thread on page 2 :

Quote (izParagonzi @ Jan 20 2022 01:28pm)
Guessing this paragraph is in relation to Critical Strike. Early in the Crit Strike thread, there was mention to Critical Strike having a similar effect as X number of Stats (Dex for example using Sword / Staff / Long Sword & Polearms), there will be a difference with Daggers / Clubs / Spear & Warhammers since during the tests there was speculation that Critical Hit checks were less noticeable, as for Axe / Battleaxe, it may change again, maybe based on how high one of the stats are. Let me know if you have a "Testing Criteria" (method) to test further.


NOTE: it seems from your "Spreadsheet", the test results have already been done, you just haven't recorded it yourself.

EDIT2: You will see that I also stated if I had Critical Strike mods on my items.

EDIT3: There is only ONE(1) thing that will change a Critical Hit chance versus monsters, IF(if) they have : + % Critical Flux Gives a % chance to stop an enemy's attack from critical hitting you.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Jan 30 2022 02:54pm
Bigheaded
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Jan 30 2022 02:54pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Jan 30 2022 08:40pm)
You already have MORE than enough raw data from this link (starting on page 3 where I added my tests) : https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=80541143&f=74&o=20

There isn't much difference, % out of 100 attacks, Strength & Dexterity included and the weapon type *(edited time to type) AND, mostly based on the ratios of the stat, all you need to do is to TEST out the same base stat(s) with the same type of weapon BUT add in Critical Strike items while keeping the same stat value... the level means jack shit t this stage, but (BUT) I believe I have also added those numbers into my tests. You just need to go through them, re-test a few with your gear and add in the Critical Strike mods.

Also, this is what I posted earlier in this thread on page 2 :



NOTE: it seems from your "Spreadsheet", the test results have already been done, you just haven't recorded it yourself.

EDIT2: You will see that I also stated if I had Critical Strike mods on my items.


i know it exists, i just can't be bothered to input all the info into a spreadsheet at the moment.
izParagonzi
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Jan 30 2022 02:59pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Jan 31 2022 09:54am)
i know it exists, i just can't be bothered to input all the info into a spreadsheet at the moment.


Well, looks like you blocked me from PMs during your Competition, but this is what I was going to send you... it is the edit I made to my post as you posted your reply.

I just thought of this:

EDIT3: There is only ONE(1) thing that will change a Critical Hit chance versus monsters, IF(if) they have : + % Critical Flux Gives a % chance to stop an enemy's attack from critical hitting you.


Not sure if monster type or any abilities will have this, but then it should only be a 0.1% chance a monster could have it.
Bigheaded
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Jan 31 2022 12:16pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Jan 30 2022 08:59pm)
Well, looks like you blocked me from PMs during your Competition, but this is what I was going to send you... it is the edit I made to my post as you posted your reply.

I just thought of this:

EDIT3: There is only ONE(1) thing that will change a Critical Hit chance versus monsters, IF(if) they have : + % Critical Flux Gives a % chance to stop an enemy's attack from critical hitting you.


Not sure if monster type or any abilities will have this, but then it should only be a 0.1% chance a monster could have it.


2 options:
1. Mobs do not use critical flux excluding well mobs
This means all the tests will be done against mobs which arn't using critical flux. As we won't come across any as they don't exist.

2. Mobs can have critical flux
This means all the tests will be done and given a large enough test sample will hit the average number of times mobs with critical flux appear.


We literally do not have any other way of testing so the test themselves will incorporate critical flux, whether the mobs use it or not.
izParagonzi
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Feb 2 2022 12:01am
Quote (Bigheaded @ Feb 1 2022 07:16am)
2 options:
1. Mobs do not use critical flux excluding well mobs
This means all the tests will be done against mobs which arn't using critical flux. As we won't come across any as they don't exist.

2. Mobs can have critical flux
This means all the tests will be done and given a large enough test sample will hit the average number of times mobs with critical flux appear.


We literally do not have any other way of testing so the test themselves will incorporate critical flux, whether the mobs use it or not.


Sneaky doesn't seem to have Crit Flux (my assumption), but has mass Hit points and Physical Damage Reduction... I don't believe Sneaky has great armor.

Testing on Sneaky will give you a ton of Critical Hit chance data... you can see it in my previous testing that it was working out great, just a bit tedious.

EDIT: my previous tests have all the information your Spreadsheet has... I don't have any Microsoft or other software to put data on a spreadsheet, or word document.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Feb 2 2022 12:02am
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