Message received loud and clear I have my secret decoder ring here and I'll crack the code to save little orphan rexy
the message is

BE...SURE...TO...DRINK...YOUR...OVALTINE

YES, this is a healthy alternative to chocolate milk i will sure to spread the good word THANK YOU SECRET OPERATIVE REX

Safe to say, I will eagerly await your next coded transmission for my next taste of sweet sweet enlightenment.

I like how people try to come up with some banter after they have clearly been shown their error. Hey, even I have those moments, share all the decoder info you want... maybe someone should give you a barrel of bourbon to make you see the text and content of posts more clearly.

Here's the funny thing, I didn't misunderstand you. You misunderstood me. I wasn't debating or disagreeing with you.

I am willing to agree with you. I'm willing to experiment with dropping the 60ee items. Especially with high ranks of prof.
At one point I had 29 lightning proficiency and I was experimenting with using a lightning charm with a flat 300 mana and no ee. It worked fine for the most part.

So I ask again. In regards to t3 axes, what mod do you think we should use instead of enhanced effect?

I used Axe as an example because of the consistency of damage, and when used on a Barb it benefits with the high Strength / Dexterity combination. As for lightning with low & high end values, you work with averages ... but if I could go back to starting Ladder Slasher when I first started, I would have definitely chosen Lightning & Wild heal charms over any others. Again I would still stick with Heavy weapons.

As for my reply earlier... it was the last paragraph that I may have misunderstood as to why I thought you did not understand either, but you ended up editing that post (not sure if during of after:

This is what you had written out (it is post #10 ... mine);

"You havent proposed any alternatives other than white and 30ee in your post..."

And I clearly did propose alternatives in my original post.

But again, semantics right.

Fine lets give you a clear answer then.
There are 3 reasons:
1. Level 4 mobs will have a reasonable chance of surviving an attack with 60ee tier 3 weapon even with 20-30 more prof
2. Multi target abilities such as multistrike and crossstrike do less damage on single targets, so having maxed ee maximises chances they'll die
3. There is nothing better to be using, there's no point in buying a cheaper one seeing even 60ee t3 costs next to nothing. If a tier 3 with 60ee costed say 500 fg, then yes your arguement for selling it and upgrading something else makes sense, but 20 fg is nothing here.

To add to this, it's not uncommon once you hit the cap, to start looking into buying weapons to get past the 80ee cap by having side stats such as this one.

Legendary elm club
Damage: 23 to 104

+50% Enhanced Effect
+15 Strength
+2 Life Regen
+1 to 2 Life per Attack
+3% Mind Numb
+2% Power Shot
+2 Jubilance

My intention is to one day hit the 30 prof required to cap this out. Same can be said for this one, where i'm only 7 (nearly 6) prof away from reaching the cap on this one. Whether or not the int is better than max mana i'm unsure as i generally get max mana from my other items.

Angelic fire IV
Level Req: 5
Spell Damage: 46 to 124
Mana Cost: 29

+69% Enhanced Effect
+9 Intelligence
+1% Damage Return
+2 Jubilance

Neither of these items costed much, the club may have cost me 50-100 fg, but in comparison to my set costing 33000 fg, this doesn't really make a dent in the cost.




I will say the idea isn't as daft as it looks.
Lets arguably say you have a set of level 20-50 weapons each with 100ee and a MQ weapon of 130ee, This is same price as 20-50 weapons with 110ee and a mq of 110ee, but the first set in general will be faster seeing you use that mq weapon all the way from 55 all the way to MQ.
Unfortunately you argued for t3's where the logic isnt there due to how cheap t3's are. Better off arguing why do we pay 20k+ for a 40 dex tier 1 ice/robe unspawn, as in that sense then yes, we're better off saving the fg and spending it on MQ upgrades, the reason they sell at that price is the people who buy them already have the best MQ gear that they can buy anyway.

This post was edited by Bigheaded on Dec 12 2021 08:15am

Great discussion. I've re-read it. So I will quote 2 sections out of my initial post (in "")

#1: (which was written after #2)
So, my question is this, "Why are you still saving the 60% Enhanced Effect Tier III item knowing full well that there is NO BENEFIT using it?"

#2:
"To be honest, you could just use a Tier III sword with 0 PROF% and 1 hit kill 80% of the time from level 1 to 5."



Now everything that was posted, was in reflection that a person with 20+ Rank and USING the EXCUSE that they DON'T gain ANY PROF points from level 1 to 21, should in fact, get rid of that Tier III &/or IV &/or V &/or VI weapon and move onto something else... damn they could start casting if they had great casting gear with +XXX Max Mana in conjunction with +Int.

Abilities is what you posted about... hey great, you are referring to being in a group, so how much Charge % do you have in your 1 point Ability at level 1 to 5 ... 20% , 10% , 6%... 20% for like a Samurai using Multistrike, definitely NOT a feeder that hasn't unlocked Samurai class. Okay... you are talking about HIGHER LEVELS right ... like level 10 and woot, you have 48% in your ability for Power Strike (if fighter), maybe Retribution (if Barb) ... but then they are not Multi abilities right. But works for Samurai, also Warlock caster not sure, not really debatable because you would be @ the level for you to be gaining Prof points anyway.

As for the lvl 55+ ... pity the game mechanics there being you use more actions to kill each one off in comparison with your EE items... mind you, if 250%+ EE level 55 items dropped as frequently as 50-55% EE tier III items... it would be over kill, and even with me mentioning this... someone will have to have Rank 55 in weapon or charm first.

But great discussion, different way of looking at it and how it was interpreted.

Guess i answered that in my other posts.



So the question is why am i not gaining prof for another weapon?

two scenario's here:
1. We already are, as an example i shall show some of the ugliness of my tracker


This particular player uses ices in most games till level 30+ to gain prof in that area. So we're doing exactly as you suggested already.

2. I personally have no intention of using any other charms other than fire/ice, so why should i bother levelling prof in areas i do not care about? I personally would rather overkill all the mobs and look for ways to increase my damage further or use useful side mods on fire/ice charms.
This is a much rarer scenario, most players generally are getting prof.



One final note, not that many players have 20+ prof in weapon profs, much more common in casting profs though,
https://forums.d2jsp.org/user.php?c=3&i=193561&p=58179
So it's much less common to use a different weapon prof, also if you have dex gear with daggers and axes which is also common, you'd need to buy strength gear to go with the 60ee sword in this case.
Hence for casting when you're using the same Intel gear, it doesn't matter if you swap charms, this + prof being more common = more common to get profs in other elements.


Hope this clears things up

Past tense "I used to have Rank 20+ in sword" ... I know the gist of the matter there.

I see the Ice / Light scenario... and yes your prerogative to only want to over kill ... I am still living in the past with some of the older gamers where we counted TOTAL prof RANKS ... i.e. so n so has 90 ranks, oh but JoJo has 120 ranks. And yup, that was only for their Main characters. Pity though... you could still just pick up a rank or two in other things, especially if you find that Tier III fire charm with +15 int / 300 max mana & like 10% ee ... you never know.

I have both Dex and Strength gear.... actually sent my 58% ee / 9 str / +1xx Max life Tier III chain to a guild member to use, oh well, not a loss level 1 to 10 or 15.

Oh hey, did you manage to finish this up: https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=82759999&f=74

I was going to post (below), but something about 3 months old etc.



Great Guide.

@ Meridius... thanks for stating Revenge... it is definitely underestimated. Mind you, I only like on Paladin+

@ Bigheaded... I may have missed this... if you have a group that already has a Tanker with great EE armor, wouldn't you want the new person to use Stat Armor instead while sitting in the back?
... I believe Stat heavy armors are cheaper than Medium / Light, and definitely increases a new persons killing speed in an already well rounded group with a Tanker.

Don't take my question personally, I think it is optional for a new player to have that choice. And like I said, I may have missed it, if you have written it in there.

Generally too much hassle, everyone in general uses their own gear for melee classes, most cases of borrowing is when guildies have gear that significantly outclasses what someone is using. For example if i hit headhunter my MQ axe is only 140 and i'm gonna ideally want better ^^




Never finished it off, in general we stuff new players in the front for the simple reason their damage is usually insignificant, but it also tells us their interest, if they get 3000 actions they will generally be invited back presuming they are attempting to improve gear. If they only get 2000 actions or leave mid way through, we either speak to them on how to get better or not climb with them.
Once they start climbing regularly they usually get a guild which then sorts them out further. can't include everything in a guide usually.

However it should probably be in there as i'd rather not see any monks with a set of ~60ee robes

Most of the comments summed up some of the improvements which need to be made to the guide though

This is the norm from 99% of people... including me.



Nice... the reason why I mentioned the new person buying Stat gear is because I (keyword "I") feel that your healer will do less healing and also contribute more actions to damage = increasing DPS.

Just how I see it... newcomer damage increases, less healing actions = more damaging actions = faster run.