In some gear configurations Ariocs is slightly ahead or slightly behind ebotd, but there is never a large gap. The life leech on ebotd opens up different gear choices like Kira's.

Both are still quite a bit worse than a gg rare spear/polearm. Up to 450%ed and 200%ed to demons is just impossible to beat, but getting such a weapon is going to be very difficult.

Yeah we are a long time away before those start showing up. I always check for eth rare pikes but 99% of people are never going to ID them

Yes, it's good for any build with amp/decrep, but without you manually cursing, Reaper's is better.




Yes, the EBOTD leech is handy and does indeed let you use Kira's, but the price point between the two is fairly big. However, Arioc's does edge it out somewhat significantly if you're willing to put a good jewel in it. And this is even more so if you use a more offensive setup like Fort+Andys. It's largely a toss up though like you said.

People used them on merc sometimes for the +4 skill on tg bear druids.

It’s genuinely nice to see that you’ve found a build that works for you.

I just got a chance to assemble this build and went from doing NM and struggling in hell, to just breeeeeeeezing through hell. Thanks so much for sharing

I went the leap build, could you share your war cry build so I can try that out instead with a respec? The leap positioning is a bit weird with amp cause it spreads them out sometimes (like you said)

This post was edited by Jaytron on Oct 19 2021 12:07am

ran some experiments today, and so far i'm still sub-1minuting with either eBOTD War Pike or well rolled Eth Arioc, but the Merc feels more fragile with Arioc due to loss of the BOTD Life Leech.

this is my current setup: https://d2.maxroll.gg/d2planner/fq0106r3



this is something i need to mess with more; i've tried a midrange eth Ariocs with a Pul rune (vs. demons), and while the setup is close, the fact that the merc is so much frailer makes it awkward sometimes.
not sure what i'm doing differently, but i can't sub-1 minute with Arioc with the same safety overhead that eBOTD war pike/andy has, with the 25%LL. i end up needing to babysit the positioning & hydra soak a bit more.

This post was edited by Exokek on Oct 24 2021 11:39am

yeah so just testing arioc's with the setup, and the merc is just waaaay more fragile than with BOTD, to the point where it's not even funny at all. got consistent sub-1 minute runs, but the merc folds a lot faster in tight spots, and you unnecessarily end up doing a lot more babysitting than you would with BOTD.
I suspect part of it is due to the fact that when fighting the super uniques (Ismail, Toorc), ITD does nothing, and the loss of BOTD's life leech against sketchy trav council combos (of which there are plenty) cuts it down.

I think Arioc is a great weapon if you use Leap to lock enemies all the time so they literally can't fight back, but those runs tend to take longer than melee range War Cry/Find Item spam.

possibly the best budget version of a merc weapon? just not been super impressed with how "glass cannon" the merc feels relative to BOTD + Andy's so far.

Did more tests. The two setups were:

401/15 BOTD Eth War Pike / Fort / Andy's with a 28FR/24ED jewel
223% Eth Arioc's with a 15IAS/37ED jewel / Fort / Andy's with a 15IAS/30FR jewel

Both setups used Gavel of Pain on the swap, stashed gold & unidentified loot in A3, and repaired/refilled in A4 after each run.

Arioc's is a lot closer to eBOTD after another couple of gold cap tests. Both get sub 1-minute runs (including repairs, WPs, etc.), to where you hit the "remake a game" timer.
The Merc deaths I had were all with Arioc's, and combos that aren't a problem on the eBOTD setup have been a bit more of an issue with the Arioc's.

Fanaticism for instance is almost a non-issue on eBOTD, but Arioc's lack of built-in lifesteal to stack with Andy's forces you to use Leap in some cases. Get a couple of bad other affixes in there and it can be rough.
Conviction is rough for both setups, but eBOTD naturally has better sustain against it.

My best runs so far (including repairs, WPs, potion/portal refills), thanks to ideal positioning/affix combos, etc.
- 46 seconds on Arioc's
- 37 seconds on eBOTD War Pike

CONCLUSIONS:

- Arioc's Needle is almost as effective as eBOTD if you go out of your way to hit the 75IAS breakpoint.
- eBOTD War Pike remains still faster & more resilient than Arioc's Needle

To note: I've tried every other common weapon used, with ideal DPS breakpoints & jewels (dumped over 15k FG into the experiments), and none of them have felt as close to Arioc's in terms of consistency.
- Perf Eth Bonehew,
- 230%ED/13+LL Eth Reaper's Toll
- 270%ED Eth 3os Tomb Reaver with 3 Lo Runes. This one was extremely good, but suffered from the lack of built-in life leech at times. It may be the case that 2 Lo Runes + 1 Amn rune is ideal, but that remains worse than eBOTD for anything other than Conviction situations, where the extra Resists help. Plus, you lose 10% of your corpses that you can't Find Item on.

As far as Trav goes, with an Andariel's Visage/Fort setup, Eth Arioc's Needle is undisputed as a Unique alternative to eBOTD as far as I can tell.

I've run a couple of other combinations of armor/helmet as well, but all of them remain worse on Arioc's.
The next best helmet to use for both setups & for convenience is a Guillaume's Face with a Cham Rune in it. If you're not looking to simply smash the time spent on each run, the Cham rune will save you Mercenary positioning headaches vs. Cold/Freeze.

An alternative armor to Fortitude with eBOTD is a 4os Armor with: two 15IAS/15All Res jewels, one 15IAS/ED jewel & a Cham Rune. You still run in 50s~ or so, and the jewel modifiers compensate for the lost resist on Fort, but hit an IAS breakpoint & provide Cannot be Frozen.
One of the most fun expêeriments was a Shael'd Arioc's + 15IAS/30FR Andy's, with 60IAS/28allres/70ED 4os armor, which pushed the attack speed to stupid fun levels, since it hits the 142IAS breakpoint. No room for a Cham makes this a pointless alternative investment, though.

I'll keep running more tests, but that's where I'm at right now with these two comparisons.

This post was edited by Exokek on Oct 25 2021 02:24am

I will give it a try with my leap barb for sure.

yeah i'm not a crazy fan of Leap locking, but I can't argue with how safe it is when the gear isn't there yet (early in a season, etc.)