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Jan 23 2022 03:09pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 23 Jan 2022 21:44)
Good thing I wasn't making a comparison.

Again, fuck off with your bad faith arguments.


You were clearly implying a comparison when you wrote "... how Omicron is still serious". How serious it is clearly depends on the vaccination rate and level of immunity in a place. The experience from countries like the UK, Ireland, Australia, Spain, Portugal and others clearly shows that Omicron is no longer serious in places with New Zealand's vax rate. NZ isn't Missouri, it's not filled to the brim with unvaxxed, morbidly obsese meth addicts, so there you go.
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Jan 23 2022 03:13pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 23 2022 01:09pm)
You were clearly implying a comparison when you wrote "... how Omicron is still serious". How serious it is clearly depends on the vaccination rate and level of immunity in a place. The experience from countries like the UK, Ireland, Australia, Spain, Portugal and others clearly shows that Omicron is no longer serious in places with New Zealand's vax rate. NZ isn't Missouri, it's not filled to the brim with unvaxxed, morbidly obsese meth addicts, so there you go.


america is the worst place thats why the border is clogged with people that are not given shit about "vaxxed"

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Jan 23 2022 03:13pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 23 2022 03:09pm)
You were clearly implying a comparison when you wrote "... how Omicron is still serious". How serious it is clearly depends on the vaccination rate and level of immunity in a place. The experience from countries like the UK, Ireland, Australia, Spain, Portugal and others clearly shows that Omicron is no longer serious in places with New Zealand's vax rate. NZ isn't Missouri, it's not filled to the brim with unvaxxed, morbidly obsese meth addicts, so there you go.


Because Omicron IS still serious if you let it run in your community. The UK is still at risk of having its hospitals overwhelmed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jan/04/uk-covid-coronavirus-live-news-omicron-may-have-plateaued-amongst-under-50s-in-london-top-scientist-says

It's really easy to find that even in places with high vaccination rates Omicron is still stressing their healthcare systems and if we aren't at the peak of the wave the curves suggest will likely be just as bad of a stress as this time last year.
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Jan 23 2022 03:27pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 23 Jan 2022 22:13)
Because Omicron IS still serious if you let it run in your community. The UK is still at risk of having its hospitals overwhelmed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jan/04/uk-covid-coronavirus-live-news-omicron-may-have-plateaued-amongst-under-50s-in-london-top-scientist-says

It's really easy to find that even in places with high vaccination rates Omicron is still stressing their healthcare systems and if we aren't at the peak of the wave the curves suggest will likely be just as bad of a stress as this time last year.


British hospitals were already on the brink of collapse every winter before covid. That's what you get from a single payer healthcare system that is neglected by the government.

And note that the article you linked was from Jan 4, right at the peak of their Omicron wave. Their case load has gone down substantially since then:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases#card-cases_by_date_reported
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Jan 23 2022 03:31pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 23 2022 03:27pm)
British hospitals were already on the brink of collapse every winter before covid. That's what you get from a single payer healthcare system that is neglected by the government.

And note that the article you linked was from Jan 4, right at the peak of their Omicron wave. Their case load has gone down substantially since then:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases#card-cases_by_date_reported


Thanks for conceding the point that even with high vaccination rates Omicron can cause problems for hospital load.

Maybe we're finally getting past the Omicron wave. That'd be nice. If New Zealand opens will depend on their priorities in the future. If they want to continue to prevent infections and hospital load they can remain closed. It's not my country and it's going to be dependent on THEIR values. Not ours.
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Jan 23 2022 03:45pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 23 Jan 2022 22:31)
Thanks for conceding the point that even with high vaccination rates Omicron can cause problems for hospital load.

You brought up an article saying "some British hospitals are starting to feel overwhelmed" and interpreted it as as evidence that Omicron is causing a (noteworthy) extra burden while that is actually the normal state of things in the British NHS during peak flu season. And keep in mind that the British Omicron wave saw some roughly 25% of their population get infected within just 5-ish weeks. That's bonkers. If things didn't collapse during such a wave, they'll be fine.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 23 2022 03:53pm
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Jan 23 2022 03:50pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 23 2022 03:45pm)
You brought up an article saying "some British hospitals are starting to feel overwhelmed" and interpreted it as as evidence that Omicron is causing a (noteworthy) extra burden while that is actually the normal state of things in the British NHS during peak flu season. And keep in mind that the British Omicron wave saw some roughly 25% of their population get infected within juts 5-ish weeks. That's bonkers. If things didn't collapse during such a wave, they'll be fine.


Sure, but nobody could be sure that would be the case beforehand, and we know that many countries have struggled. Don't apply post-hoc reasoning brosef.

Maybe it is time for them to open back up. We can't make that decision and it will depend on their values. They've been very successful at doing what they set out to do.
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Jan 23 2022 03:59pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 23 Jan 2022 22:50)
Sure, but nobody could be sure that would be the case beforehand, and we know that many countries have struggled. Don't apply post-hoc reasoning brosef.


Oh, I agree with you that it was a risky gamble by the British government to take this approach based only on early data from South Africa, a country that is vastly younger and whose immunity was derived mostly from previous infection, not vaccination. You might even call it reckless. But it has worked out, just like it has in a wide range of other countries, including Australia which is the country most similar to NZ. And unlike the Brits, New Zealand doesn't have to take the same kind of gamble. They can draw on much broader and more conclusive data about what to expect out of Omicron.

Arguing "whoa, that's a bit reckless, you should better play it safe" was valid for the UK back in early December, but it no longer is a valid argument for New Zealand at the end of January.

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Jan 23 2022 04:20pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 23 2022 03:59pm)
Oh, I agree with you that it was a risky gamble by the British government to take this approach based only on early data from South Africa, a country that is vastly younger and whose immunity was derived mostly from previous infection, not vaccination. You might even call it reckless. But it has worked out, just like it has in a wide range of other countries, including Australia which is the country most similar to NZ. And unlike the Brits, New Zealand doesn't have to take the same kind of gamble. They can draw on much broader and more conclusive data about what to expect out of Omicron.

Arguing "whoa, that's a bit reckless, you should better play it safe" was valid for the UK back in early December, but it no longer is a valid argument for New Zealand at the end of January.


That isn't our decision to make. People have different risk tolerances, as do countries. Some value medical trauma more than others. In the U.S. we couldn't give less of a shit. They're kind of the opposite extreme.
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Jan 23 2022 06:47pm
Quote (TiStuff @ Jan 23 2022 01:13pm)
america is the worst place thats why the border is clogged with people that are not given shit about "vaxxed"










This post was edited by lodd222 on Jan 23 2022 06:58pm
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