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Nov 29 2020 10:24pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ 29 Nov 2020 21:05)
College loan forgiveness is the middle class getting free stuff. People with degrees have the highest employment rates and fill the middle to middle upper classes.

no its not, the middle class will pay the brunt of this policy. privileged people will get their liabilities covered from the taxpayer dollars siphoned from the working and middle class
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Nov 30 2020 01:16am
Quote (excellence @ Nov 29 2020 08:24pm)
no its not, the middle class will pay the brunt of this policy. privileged people will get their liabilities covered from the taxpayer dollars siphoned from the working and middle class



They'll pay for not having to pay? Rethink what you wrote.
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Nov 30 2020 01:20am
Quote (excellence @ Nov 29 2020 07:59pm)
youre the one reliant on the government and who always votes for racists to ‘fix racism”, not me

forgiveness of student loans would mostly benefit privileged people like you, not me. im open to it as long as people who paid for it “out of pocket” get to benefit as well


If you ever get out of your parents basement and have kids you will benefit.

Okay so I see why you would be against it since that's just not going to happen.
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Nov 30 2020 01:21am
Everyone seen the creature from Jekyll Island or read the book?
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Nov 30 2020 01:30am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 29 2020 04:55pm)
One aspect in favor of your current college system is that its top-heaviness lends itself to the formation of some of the finest elite universities on the planet, which in turn help the U.S. attract a lot of the brightest minds of the world. Your country is THE main beneficiary of international brain drain, while universities in continental Europe struggle with recruiting top tier international researchers. The access to top tier talent boosts your country's economy and helps retain its technological edge, factors which help all Americans to some degree, even those with pleb tier degrees or no college at all.

Overall, the advantages of the European model for the bulk of students imho outweigh this "brain drain factor", but this factor still has to be accounted for when comparing the two systems.


If anything it creates a glut that is filled by other countries.

We don't educate enough skilled professionals so we import them. My school was a great example of what not to do. We had a great business department that was ridiculously funded, spent millions on a new football field, and had a crumbling chemistry physics and engineering department and a biomedical department that was only good for turning out premeds with zero options if they dont get into medical school.

This is pretty common in the states. Our educational priorities are way out of whack and it mostly stems from private influences bilking the system just like our healthcare system
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Nov 30 2020 04:06am
Quote (Thor123422 @ 30 Nov 2020 08:30)
If anything it creates a glut that is filled by other countries.

We don't educate enough skilled professionals so we import them. My school was a great example of what not to do. We had a great business department that was ridiculously funded, spent millions on a new football field, and had a crumbling chemistry physics and engineering department and a biomedical department that was only good for turning out premeds with zero options if they dont get into medical school.

This is pretty common in the states. Our educational priorities are way out of whack and it mostly stems from private influences bilking the system just like our healthcare system


@bold: maybe, but I was talking about top end researchers, about the upper echelons of human achievement where you're really constrained by IQ and talent. Even if all talented Americans had great funding and opportunity to pursue a career in research, your population of "just" 330m would still not be able to produce as many of these top tier people as you can utilize. Siphoning them off from China, India or Europe is to your benefit. The problem you're mentioning is only indirectly related to the point I was talking about.

But yes, you're right that the American system is wasting a lot of talent because the profit-orientation gets its priorities wrong. Case in point: coaches in college football. Nick Saban being paid a salary of $8.6m per year by the University of Alabama is definitely what the state needs. :rofl:



Quote (bogie160 @ 30 Nov 2020 02:00)
I mean that discretionary spending on infrastructure, technology, sciences, and education represent good investments from which we can expect to reap rewards.

The problem isn't that government spends money on these things, but that the money spent is poorly used and wrapped up in layers of bureaucracy and red tape that imbed perverse interests into the process. Bureaucracy needs to be streamlined, regulations of firing government employees cut, but at the same time there is a dearth of investment that needs to be rectified, and government salaries need to go up if government agencies have any hope at siphoning off a small slice of private sector talent.


100% agreed.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 30 2020 04:07am
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Nov 30 2020 08:05am
Quote (Thor123422 @ 30 Nov 2020 02:20)
If you ever get out of your parents basement and have kids you will benefit.

Okay so I see why you would be against it since that's just not going to happen.

says the guy who admits he is reliant on his in-laws for food and is ending his pale pasty privileged lineage with him lmfao! not our fault you wish to project your shortcomings onto the rest of the world.

plenty of people in this country, which includes minorities and immigrants paid for their education (either ‘in cash’ or by paying loans off) without the expectation of the government covering the cost. you are not part of this group and you expect to get a better “deal” - at the expense of the working and middle classes. this is why you are a waste of privilege
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Nov 30 2020 09:36am
I think its good we're having a healthy discussion on this, personally im on the fence and dont think any help on student debt should come without getting tuiton costs under control

Useless degrees in the soft sciences or liberal arts should be something that can be pursued in highschool perhaps

This post was edited by duffman316 on Nov 30 2020 09:36am
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Nov 30 2020 09:49am
Quote (duffman316 @ Nov 30 2020 09:36am)
I think its good we're having a healthy discussion on this, personally im on the fence and dont think any help on student debt should come without getting tuiton costs under control

Useless degrees in the soft sciences or liberal arts should be something that can be pursued in highschool perhaps


1. Cap tuition at 6000 USD / year
2. Cap interest rate at 4%
3. Subsidize in-demand degrees by providing merit based scholarships, financial need scholarships, and whatever else to get people to go into these degrees.
4. Fund departments for in-demand degrees so they always have access to industrially relevant equipment.
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Nov 30 2020 09:55am
Quote (duffman316 @ 30 Nov 2020 10:36)
I think its good we're having a healthy discussion on this, personally im on the fence and dont think any help on student debt should come without getting tuiton costs under control

Useless degrees in the soft sciences or liberal arts should be something that can be pursued in highschool perhaps


won't happen in this country. government and schools are already in cahoots in that racket, and a great deal of the US population is fine with that. good luck untangling that web.
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