He said that the media coverage/fear mongering was a hoax, not the virus itself.

Yeah, pretty much.



Calling somebody's lies a hoax is pretty bold talk to a person who's served in the senate for 180 years. I can see why Joe's so upset.

since I'm feeling kind of sorry for you, I'll help you out regarding the Airlines Bill. First, it's not a $25 billion bill, it's a $28.8 billion bill. And while it's not what would be considered an Omnibus Bill, as it's very limited to the scope of airline/contractor funding, it's also a 20 page bill. There are some interesting terms in it, and some fairly major issues that are to be had. Second, it was not "voted down" or held up in any way, shape, or form by "house republicans". It could have easily passed a vote and gone to the Senate. DeFazio attempted to insist on a "unanimous consent" that would remove the need to vote at all, and was denied. So rather than taking it to an actual vote, he withdrew it. Why? Nobody knows.

Here's the Bill: https://transportation.house.gov/imo/media/doc/Payroll%20Support%20Program%20Extension%20Act_signed.pdf

In the future, if you want to start acting as though I should magically support something, at least know what you're talking about. You hadn't read the bill, you didn't know the content of the tweets, and you didn't even know the concerns revolving around any of it, yet you claim that other people are uninformed. Put some effort in, Kiddo.

In regards to caps, for the 3rd time, I have been advocating for aid to go to workers for the last 6 months. More than the worthless $1200 a month garbage. Yet another meaningless ramble

Your argument for how I learned about his specific 3 proposals is that since he posted them on Twitter, that is exclusively where we must have received that information. Never mind the hour long conversations myself and other users were having with it this morning. Guess what, when the president tweets something relevant such as stimulus aid, it reaches most news networks, including CNBC and Bloomberg finances which are my personal favorites. Painful I even have to write this but whatever I have time

I am not sure you understand how the CARES act works? The 2 trillion that was allotted was approved and gone to the treasury, including the 25 billion that ALREADY went to airlines in April. Even then the airlines have always been staring this was not enough. What trump is advocating for now, and what most members of Congress both house and senate agreed to at one point or another is an additional 25 (28 ur right) billion. The bill that was blocked from house republicans last week was specially a bill to utilize those funds for an additional 6 months going forward, specifically for airline relief. Otherwise the current 10million lost jobs has a good chance to double. Airline mismanagement is not the topic of discussion, I already think they should go bankrupt. That’s not the point



The rhetoric that I heard was they wanted unanimous consent to hasten the process. It was assumed it would get accepted because it was the same bill that Republican senators came up with the week or so prior. You are correct it was 28billion not 25 billion that was my bad.

This post was edited by Bazi on Oct 7 2020 10:10pm

1. I don't want airline workers to get more aid. They've already gotten a bailout. They were never under lockdown. Millions of people received nothing. I do not approve of anything further, not a single penny, going to airlines until those who've already been furloughed for the last 6 months without any aid whatsoever receive aid. Again, and again, and again, the airline is not receiving "pandemic aid" they are receiving "bailouts".

2. That you did not bother to read and understand the source material is completely relevant to why you failed to understand that the only "single issue bill" that Trump called for was the $1200 stimulus. He did not call for a singular Airlines Aid bill because that's political suicide. He gets that without PPP, he's just fucked all the locked down workers in favor of those who've not experienced layoffs or furloughs at all. Are you high? There aren't 10 million airline workers. You're looking at an estimate of 45,000 airline workers that're going to be laid off if the airlines do not receive another bailout. But wait... Only 45,000? How's that? $25,000,000,000 / 45,000 = $555,555. What the fuck happened to that $25 Billion that was already provided? Are you going to claim that the average 6 month pay was magically over half a million for 45K workers?

3. My argument for how you learned about what you're talking about is simple: You don't know the source material, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You're repeating talking points that are based on interpretations from people who have a political slant who ARE willing to take the time to evaluate the source material. In other words, you're a low information voter who votes based on a narrative rather than the facts.

I posted the bill. As in, it's full text. All 20 pages of it. You'd do well to read it. Knowing all terms and limitations is important. And again, that bill never went to a vote, because DeFazio never put it to a vote. He asked for a unanimous consensus, which he did not get, and likely expected not to get. Had he put it to a vote in the House, it would have easily passed, likely on both sides of the aisle, no matter how much that fact irritates me.

1. Blah blah rehashing the same point again and again. Airlines bad yadayada. This is clear and I am not antagonizing this point so why are you parroting yourself

2. The 25 billion obviously went to CEO, COO, other execs, and stock buy backs. Is it relevant to discuss how this money was wasted? did I make any claim it was used properly. I have been largely arguing the CARES act was a 2 trillion dollar sham, accomplishing nothing in the mid/longterm. I misspoke when I said there are 10 million airline workers, I meant they are involved with maintaining 10 million American jobs, that’s on me.

3. Chief economic advisor kudlow stated live on squawk this morning and in no uncertain terms: “the president absolutely sign a stand alone piecemeal deal including additional aid to airlines”. Unless your point is that the NEC director is not to be trusted and the only information we should have is from trump tweets. The talking points I am repeating are from his mouth, without slant. If his words are not the definition of source material then perhaps you can enlighten the world

As I stated earlier, the unanimous consent was sought to hasten the process, given that the bill was originally written by republican senators I imagine he thought it would get through quickly. I agree this was foolish, if indeed actual airline aid was the goal. However the Main point is that it certainly is not a one party problem.

This post was edited by Bazi on Oct 7 2020 10:38pm

It has nothing to do with airlines being "bad". Jesus fuck dude, read the god damned bill. One of the clauses in the bill requires that services be maintained even to low traffic rural areas. As in, a lot of flights with few or no passengers. Meaning an epic fuckton of wasted money, wasted fuel, and if you care about such things, pointless emissions. It's not that airlines are "bad". It's that they are not under lockdown, but everyone else is, so they don't have the customer base to justify the same level of flights, especially those out of smaller and rural airports. This, at a guess, is the most likely reason the refusal to provide consensus occurred. Any idiot alive understands that if your flight traffic is 10% of normal due to government-mandated lockdowns, you should only be sending out 10% as many flights. The natural inclination on this, for the rational person, is that there SHOULD be layoffs, and 90% of the civilian fleet should be grounded, and instead of focusing on keeping shit in the air as much as possible, focus on maintaining and even renovating the jets, and analyze how to better serve the customer. Not keeping 10x the number of flights in the air as you can fill.

Regarding Kudlow, perhaps you can pull the full video of his comments for me from youtube. Again, I hesitate to comment without seeing the source. But either way, I'd say, from a purely rational standpoint, that any scenario where airlines are provided another bailout prior to a piecemeal PPP bill, without a serious change to the business model, is simple political suicide. Trump's not gonna lose much in the way of votes over sitting on airline bailout funding. He may very well lose a lot of votes if he funds a corrupt industry that has frivolously pissed away $25 Billion while everyone else has gone broke in lockdown.



You will have to show me where the bill was "originally written by republican senators". I mean, bills are typically written by House Members. Happy to review "the original" if you can find it, and not doubting your honesty, merely not seen much in the way of reporting on this being a clone bill.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Oct 7 2020 10:56pm

Again, I am NOT saying they SHOULD get the money. I am NOT saying they have used the money well. I am in fact of the opposite mind and even in May I said let them fail. They all won’t and you can give the winners some to get them through. I am merely saying and repeating that both sides of congress and the president, at one time or another, lobbied for additional airline aid. The fact that it hasn’t gone through is because both sides have been inept at one point or another.

Idk if squawkbox always goes to YouTube but I’ll look for it in AM. If not I’ll rewatch the segment and phone record + post just for you by tomorrow evening. It was kudlow basically saying trump would absolutely sign a separate airline relief bill, additional small business aid , and $1200 to all. Contrary to what mnuchin said just last week (9/30) when he stated we want to get one big package and not break it up


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2020/09/21/key-gop-senators-introduce-bill-give-airlines-28-billion-more-payroll-aid/?outputType=amp

28 billion dollar bill with 6 month extension

I cannot find the detailed bill like the one you posted but it seems fairly similar. I am making an assumption but both wicker and fazio are on a lot of the same committees as well

I think you are overestimating the political suicide on another airline relief package. His supporters don’t care and he can easily deflect and blame congress for inaction, which isn’t completely wrong.

This post was edited by Bazi on Oct 7 2020 11:20pm

At a guess, it sounds like a sponsored bill. Aka a virtually identical bill that can be introduced in the house and senate at the same time. Had it gone through with a consensus in the house from DeFazio, the Senate would already have been able to review and put in for any required changes. Just a guess, but without seeing it, best I can offer.

I'm not sure you understand just how hard a lot of blue cities are going to swing. They may not go full red, but there are cities in blue states that have voted greater majority Dem for decades that may end up being close votes due to the combination of lockdowns and endless rioting. Trump's supporters understand that lockdowns are all at the state level (aka dem governors and mayors) and local law enforcement is again local governance. The only real vessel for aid has been the federal government. Trump's been called on to help the people that local Dems are crushing. Feel free to quote me and force me to eat crow come November, but I think there'll be a much harder shakeup than anyone else is predicting. Not exactly a "red wave", more a mandate AGAINST authoritarianism. More governor slots and mayor slots lost in blue states. Again, could be wrong, and I know Democrats have outspent Republicans, on local, state, and the national stages by a FUCKTON this cycle, and have had an epic fuckton of help from tech platforms in censoring (R)_ads. On the flipside, if Trump approves something that bails out a corrupt company and fails to provide further hope to an embittered populace slowly being crushed by (D) overlords, he could lose a lot more than just his own advantage.

Anyhow, just mental stream going. Gonna stop now. Look forward to seeing that video.

https://youtu.be/UrQwgl91djM

This link works when I click on my phone , lmk if can open

This post was edited by Bazi on Oct 7 2020 11:34pm

Yeah, that worked great. So I heard that a very different way than you did. I may have to listen to it a couple more times for a better evaluation. But how that hit me was that he evaluated a 4 point plan, in order of what needed done:

1. PPP
2. Airlines
3. Schools
4. $1200 stimulus 2nd round.

He repeated them, in order, as though they're in rank of importance. And it sounded (to me) as though those 4 would be A piecemeal plan. As in, not an overreaching Covid Relief omnibus bill, just a 4 point bill.

I honestly forgot about schools, been out of college for a long time, let alone primary schools. But hearing they have in excess of 100b reserved for reopening them... Yeah, that's big. I like what he had to say. Dunno that I heard it the way you did, and the emphasis was definitely first and foremost on PPP. But he definitely put a lot more importance on bailing out the airlines, which I still disagree with, but hey, that's politics, right?