Please read the suggestion before voting. Also, if you vote, please post why you voted yes or no and maybe add onto the pros/cons to create some more discussion. Additionally, maybe suggest different price points, %s, names, etc. and why you think those values are a good idea.

The goal with this idea is to help bring in new players by solving the biggest barrier to entry for them -- the lack of gear.

To start playing ladder slasher it's next to impossible to jump into a group right away and do a group climb without having gear. It's understandable since most people don't really like being slowed down a lot by a player climbing with T1 items. As a result, before even trying the game out most people have to commit to a HUGE investment in time and some investment in FG to be able to acquire a set to climb with. Even crap <75 EE items aren't easy to come by and if they're found oftentimes they're just shrined since it may not be worth the trouble of attempting to sell them. This all means that you're investing hours upon hours just trying to find gear for sale to buy before even getting to play. This, in my opinion, is one of the major hurdles for new players.

My idea is pretty simple. I propose having "training" items people can buy directly from the market. This would function as a gold sink and allow people to start climbing right off the bat for just an FG investment and to be able to try out the game. However, to encourage people to eventually buy their own sets I believe it would be good for the items to be1) character bound and 2) expire in some way. The expiration can be simply be getting destroyed after X MQs and since they're character bound people can't just xfer them off before MQing to avoid destruction. These "training" items would not have any tiers to simplify the process and their stats would be X% of the max possible. As the character levels up the item will also automatically increase in tiers/level. So for level 0 it would be the equivalent T3 with X% of EE for the weapon/armor and X% of stats for the armor/charm and at level 55 the equivalent tier XIV. These items should not be godly or anything of the sort. They just need to be enough. There can also be multiple options to give people options for different budgets, but they should not be anywhere near godly.

Now there is also the discussion as far as which classes can use this training gear. I propose for it to at least be usable for the first 3 (feeder, samurai, paladin) and after that players are forced to invest time and FG to get gear for the rest of the classes in order to progress. In order to accomplish this make the weapon type a sword and armor type a med or heavy armor.

Example proposals with example price points:
First, for each price point of training gear there could be 2 options people could buy. 1 for a tank set and 1 for a damage set. The tank set would be an EE weapon with EE armors and a stat charm and the damage set would be an EE weapon with stat armors and charms. For example, the weapon could be a sword equivalent in terms of ratios and as such the stat items would come with str. The armor should be either med or heavy equivalents for the EE to help and the charm doesn't really matter. There could also be a casting equivalent, with int gear and EE attack/heal charms. This would make it possible for 5 brand new players to group up and complete a group climb in a reasonable amount of time with just a quick FG investment.

Second, the %s, price points, weapon/armor types and names are just suggestions and can change.

290 FG (10$ worth of FG): Worn training gear set
Gets destroyed after 3 MQs.
Worn training sword
35% of max EE for the level. This would mean that at level 0 it would be a T3 with 21EE, level 5: 28 EE, level 10: 35 EE, etc. etc. up to level 55 with 98 EE.
Worn training armor
Tank version: Same as the sword in terms of EE.
Damage version: 35% of max stat for the level. Level 0: 5 str, level 5: 7, level 10: 9 etc. up to level 55 with 25 str.
Worn training charm
Same as the damage version of the armor.

630 FG (20$ worth of FG): Basic training gear set
Gets destroyed after 4 MQs.
Basic training sword
40% of max EE for the level. Level 0: 24EE, level 5: 32 EE, level 10: 40 EE, etc. etc. up to level 55 with 112 EE.
Basic training armor
Tank version: Same as the sword in terms of EE.
Damage version: 45% of max stat for the level. Level 0: 7 str, level 5: 9, level 10: 12 etc. up to level 55 with 32 str.
Basic training charm
Same as the damage version of the armor.

920 FG (30$ worth of FG): Intermediate training gear set
Gets destroyed after 5 MQs.
Intermediate training sword:
45% of max EE for the level. Level 0: 27EE, level 5: 36 EE, level 10: 45 EE, etc. etc. up to level 55 with 126 EE.
Intermediate training armor
Tank version: Same as the sword in terms of EE.
Damage version: 55% of max stat for the level. Level 0: 8 str, level 5: 11, level 10: 14 etc. up to level 55 with 39 str.
Intermediate training charm:
Same as the damage version of the armor.


Pros:
- A brand new player can immediately jump in a climb with just an FG/$ investment.
- May increase player count and activity
- Creates an FG sink
- It makes it possible for a group of 5 brand new players to group up and complete a climb in a reasonable amount of time
- ??

Cons:
- May devalue starting gear; however, with the training sets not being permanent there is still an incentive to buy starter gear to not have to be constantly paying the training gear fee. The people who are buying the training sets may also not be people who would have spent the time even trying the game out by buying starter gear.
- Gear quality may still not be enough for old players to accept new players since they will still slow the climb down
- ??

e/ Sorry Rick, forgot the your Hell No! poll option

This post was edited by Arturo on Sep 24 2020 08:09pm

No from me. You already start out with a weapon which at lvl 1 will kill everything at lvl 1. Most buff core players (in my opinion) don’t have any serious difficulty until lvl 20 or so

Voted - Yes, with some changes.



I like it, as long as the items are account bound like you said I think it's a great introduction into the game for new players to test the waters.
The only thing I would immediately disagree with is the "Items get destroyed after X MQ's", this could easily be exploited by never MQ'ing or climbing 15x characters before MQ'ing

Other than that I love the idea

/e: now that I think of it, if the items increase in tiers as you level up - it wouldn't be equippable when creating a new character so I think your suggestion works very well

This post was edited by JonWon on Sep 24 2020 08:23pm

Haven't voted, personally I do not like the idea of items appearing on MP (Borrow Gear) that gets destroyed after X MQ attempts while the FG is just completely sunk... basically it seems like consumable items.

I would however like to see the Marketplace have a "Starter Set" tab where a current player can place a set of weapons / armor and charms (3 different categories) of 8 items in each category at a set price made by the seller and the TAX is taken when bought, also, there is no time limit on these "Set Items & Categories"... they can be removed if seller wants to. EDIT: and is not included as part of your Marketplace storage total (if you know what I mean... like the max 20 items under 20 fg)

This way, the current players can sell sets for beginners... reason why I said 3 categories of 8 items is because a starting character can only hold 8 items, and the beginner can just use mules to collect the other categories.

As stated... just an idea, I am not really fond of consumable items in this game.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Sep 24 2020 08:38pm

No vote here. While I kind of like the idea, I don't like the idea of temporary items. Either you own the item or you don't is best, imo.

Likewise, there are people with far more than 5 MQs who don't have a 98+ ee tier XIV weapon/charm to use. I honestly think spending the FG to get the gear legitimately through the trade forum/market would be a better choice.

I also agree with Cartrack's assessment.

Can't Shouldn't add more to a game that consistently disconnects it's players regardless how good the game is.. the 1006's are really starting to work my nerves, among some other bugs that constantly make my game experience torture.

Either way, I still voted no for so many reasons. You put some work/thought into this however. GL.

e/ imagine being a new player, have never seen this game before.. you like it for the few hours, until.. 1006.. 1006.. 1006.. would you stick around?

This post was edited by kaspir on Sep 24 2020 09:00pm

Nice idea. Maybe just gear up to say level 30 that would be time base expired. Unlimited amount of retries but an mq on the account would disable it.

I dunno, that seems like a lot to add to a game. If you don’t just focus on climbing character levels and MQ, and actually use the mute glyph fish functions of the game, there is plenty of stuff to do for free that is part of the game and will eventually help your total LS status.

I think you missed the point of the suggestion.

The reason for the suggestion is to increase the amount of players by making it possible for them to contribute to a group climb from minute zero. Also, to give them the ability to actually try the game before investing a huge chunk of time trying to acquire items. To test the waters as JonWon put it. Most people enjoy/want to play in groups and no one wants to climb with a brand new player that only has a T1 weapon... This is a huge turn off for a new player since it's also hard for them to get acceptable climbing gear to group up with other players mostly due to the lack of gear for sale.

Yes, solo is a way to play the game, but many people don't like doing that. I am a player that usually prefers solo nowadays, but the goal with this is to increase player count and activity and prolong the longevity of the game by removing the enormous time investment a player has to invest in the forums buying gear to be accepted in group climbs. They can't play and find the gear in a reasonable time frame and they really can't even buy the gear in a reasonable time frame either.

As far as bufcore goes, I'd say I'm the person that has played bufcore the most having done 13 climbs and having a bufcore monk... That being said, bufcore isn't for everyone and is a major grind for relatively little reward. It's not the way most people enjoy playing the game nor is it going to really attract new players if they can't play with others.

Basically, the suggestion doesn't really have to do with the difficulty in starting the game with zero gear because now, more than ever, it's very possible to MQ from zero. It has more to do with the difficulty in being accepted as a player in group climbs which is mostly due to a lack of gear to buy.



Yup. I also mentioned for the items to be character bound, not account bound to also prevent the situation you mentioned. What this doesn't prevent is people death farming, but that's not really a big deal since I don't really see new players being interested in that especially since with the quality of items this suggestion provides they won't be very effective.

Allowing new players to easily test the waters is definitely the main objective behind this suggestion. Thanks for your input!



The problem this suggestion aims to resolve is that the items for players to start don't even exist which is a problem even further accentuated in HC. You really can't get a set to climb with in a reasonable amount of time. To even get the set this suggestion aims to provide would take weeks to acquire, so it's a huge turn off for a player if they can't just jump in and start playing with other people from the start. They have to spend all that time before even trying the game unless they want to play solo. EDIT: Also, by "get" I mean buy, not find since finding these items would take even longer.

I agree, the MP should be a bit more lax on the amount one can put up and up to what amount the fee should be taken prior to a sale, but that's a different problem.

This also really shouldn't affect older players. So whether or not you don't like consumable items this suggestion isn't really for you or me. It's an attempt at increasing new players coming in, not retaining or even helping older players other than the secondary benefits that will come from having a higher player count. Making them consumable is also necessary otherwise it would make gear found with these stats or lower basically worthless. So, if a new player starts they can buy a training gear set to start playing. If they like the game they can then attempt to try to get a permanent set that doesn't get destroyed when playing, but in the meantime they can still play with these consumable sets as you put it.



The suggestion is to allow players to start playing without the time investment acquiring gear to test the waters. This really shouldn't affect older players who already have gear. It's to get people to start playing which will have secondary benefits to current players which comes from the increase demand and player count for groups.

This also doesn't remove the demand or necessity for permanent items nor trading for those types of items since having them will remove the necessity to be buying sets since they get destroyed after a few MQs. People not having 98+EE gear after 5 MQs is very true, but a big reason behind that is the items simply don't exist for them to buy or are locked away on account that has been offline for years. As a result, new players have to invest huge amounts of time trying to acquire items and by the time they do they likely have lost all interest in playing the game. 98 EE is crap, but may very well be acceptable enough for these people to be accepted into group climbs which is the main way to play the game.



I don't understand what bugs you're experiencing that is making the experience torture other than the 1006 errors which in my experience aren't that frequent. When they do happen it is annoying, I agree, but that's a different issue that doesn't relate to this suggestion.

I really would like to know the "so many reasons" you mentioned to be able to improve the idea, though rather than see complaints about bugs that have no relation to the suggestion.



I would really prefer if new players would get the ability to gear up completely to be able to start playing at a somewhat acceptable level in groups right away. Changing the expiration from MQ attempts to time based is also a fair point. It could basically be a gear rental for x amount of days.



Yeah, there are other things to do in the game, but the main focus/way to play the game is group climbing which this will allow players to start doing right away to get a feel for the game. This is something a brand new player really can't participate in from the get go. So once they get a feel for the game and decide they like playing it and to stick around they would then be able to explore those other things you mentioned.


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TL;DR the suggestion is to bring in new players by allowing them to start playing in a group right away and get a feel for the game. This suggestion is not to help older players in any way other than what should come if there is a higher player count, such as, more people available for groups, more items found, higher demand for existing items, etc.

This post was edited by Arturo on Sep 24 2020 09:20pm

So the biggest problem if the (time/fg same thing imo) invest for new players, I don't think this solves the problem having to pay x amount to mq 3 times with bad gear doesn't appeal to newcomers imo.

Investing the same amount into actually gear would be better imo.

I didn't vote either way