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Aug 31 2020 04:57pm
Quote (Sonicgundam @ Aug 31 2020 06:18am)
The data's correct, but its pointless as a flat value with no interpretation.

High speed zones are less prone to accidents by default because they're generally highways/freeways with multiple lanes, no stop signs/lights, and no intersections. you don't have people turning left against oncoming traffic and you don't have people stopping and starting consistently. it doesn't matter what speed vehicles are traveling at if everyone's going in the same direction and no one's stopping.

high speed accidents still have way higher fatality rates than low speed accidents. travelling at a high speed in a low speed area doesn't reduce accident risk at all and only increases the severity of an accident when it occurs.

chronic speeders also represent a much lower portion of the driving population. over the whole dataset they will appear to cause fewer accidents simply because they're dwarfed in number by the rest of the population. there also isn't a reliable way to quantify the portion of the population that are chronic speeders, as tickets and accidents at excessive speed are the only way to get even a hint of the value. this makes it difficult to quantify an accurate proportional value.

tl;dr KoJ is right.



Where is the information to back that up? I can find countless articles by the NHTSA and other sources talking about even 5mph slower is more deadly than speeding. You just seem to have stated and opinion with no source of where you got your information from.
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Sep 1 2020 01:32pm
Quote (Sonicgundam @ 31 Aug 2020 03:18)
The data's correct, but its pointless as a flat value with no interpretation.

High speed zones are less prone to accidents by default because they're generally highways/freeways with multiple lanes, no stop signs/lights, and no intersections. you don't have people turning left against oncoming traffic and you don't have people stopping and starting consistently. it doesn't matter what speed vehicles are traveling at if everyone's going in the same direction and no one's stopping.

high speed accidents still have way higher fatality rates than low speed accidents. travelling at a high speed in a low speed area doesn't reduce accident risk at all and only increases the severity of an accident when it occurs.

chronic speeders also represent a much lower portion of the driving population. over the whole dataset they will appear to cause fewer accidents simply because they're dwarfed in number by the rest of the population. there also isn't a reliable way to quantify the portion of the population that are chronic speeders, as tickets and accidents at excessive speed are the only way to get even a hint of the value. this makes it difficult to quantify an accurate proportional value.

tl;dr KoJ is right.



That makes some sense for sure. Although I agree with high speed accidents having a higher fatality rate based on simple physics, that doesn’t account for who actually causes the accident and what happened leading up to each specific crash. My opinion is as long as I’m not putting anyone else’s life at risk with my driving then I should be able to drive however fast I want especially on the roads in question, highway, 1 way etc. I’m already gouged enough as it is with life expenses, gas, taxes, insurance etc... don’t want to have to pay even more for getting caught going 15km over a posted speed limit in the middle of nowhere.

I’ll be buying a detector just have decided on brand yet. Ty for info guys

Quote (QtPi @ 29 Aug 2020 09:24)
I had a middle of the line beltronics, I believe it was called. Seemed to work good, would get a signal and not see the cop for several KM. Also never got false reads from other radar detectors or anything. On highway mode tho, while driving in the city, things like automatic doors to store fronts would set it off. But the detector also had a city mode (I never used it, mostly highway driving)

And here, in the prairies of canada, cops seem to flip their radar detectors on as they're coming close to a car that looks like its speeding, making the radar detector useless, as they already have you caught. But a cop sitting shooting radar, you'll know heres there several KM before you see him. As for the best detector, I'm sure a quick google search would tell you.


thanks for that.
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Sep 1 2020 04:31pm
Quote (kurisutofa @ Aug 31 2020 03:57pm)
Where is the information to back that up? I can find countless articles by the NHTSA and other sources talking about even 5mph slower is more deadly than speeding. You just seem to have stated and opinion with no source of where you got your information from.


its not an opinion at all. all it takes is a basic understanding of data collection, ie. where their data is coming from, how its collated and how it's displayed.

for example, if you actually look at the data that the NHTSA collects, more than 70% of all accidents in the US occur at low speeds. how is that the case? because 71.4% of accidents result in property only damage, ie. the accident wasn't at a high enough speed to cause physical harm to occupants. there are outliers where some asshat goes off the road at a high speed on a back road and damages the car but not themselves, but they're extreme outliers and not a significant data value in comparison to the rest of the dataset. anytime you have an actual collision at a high enough speed, there will be injury in one form or another to occupants, and as speed increases, the fatality rate increases significantly. again, not an opinion, just physics. what this data point shows is that as speed goes down, an accident is more likely to occur. the biggest factor that changes speed is location. the more attention a location requires while driving, the lower the speed so as to offer drivers more time to react to changing conditions. that's how city planning works.

the leading causes of vehicle accidents are distraction, fatigue, intoxication, and aggressive driving. when these factors come in to play, all of them have a significant value in common; the more actions a driver has to commit, the more likely they are to cause a problem. when you are city driving you commit far more actions per minute than highway/freeway driving. you are also interacting with far more drivers than you would on a highway/freeway. an accident occurs when one or more vehicles fails to adjust properly to a change in driving condition.

what these mean is that the NHTSA study you keep talking about looked at which speed brackets drivers were most likely to have an accident. the reality is most accidents happen under 40mph (65km/h) because those are city driving speeds, and the 30-40mph range is the most deadly because that's the bracket that is most likely to involve two or more vehicles travelling at a high enough rate of speed to cause fatalities. which is also why when you go to the brackets that are 5-10mph above city speeds, the accident rates and fatalities drop off significantly; the conditions that cause accidents are far less likely to occur. that is why the 30mph bracket accounts for twice the serious injuries and fatalities than the 60mph bracket. this doesn't mean that going faster is safer. it means that the places where people travel at 60mph are less likely to result in an accident.

all of this is to say that viewing speed as the only factor in what plays into accident rates is pointless and foolhardy. what speed does as a determining factor is tell you where and when accidents are more likely to occur. that's it.

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Sep 1 2020 04:48pm
Quote (Sonicgundam @ Sep 1 2020 06:31pm)
its not an opinion at all. all it takes is a basic understanding of data collection, ie. where their data is coming from, how its collated and how it's displayed.

for example, if you actually look at the data that the NHTSA collects, more than 70% of all accidents in the US occur at low speeds. how is that the case? because 71.4% of accidents result in property only damage, ie. the accident wasn't at a high enough speed to cause physical harm to occupants. there are outliers where some asshat goes off the road at a high speed on a back road and damages the car but not themselves, but they're extreme outliers and not a significant data value in comparison to the rest of the dataset. anytime you have an actual collision at a high enough speed, there will be injury in one form or another to occupants, and as speed increases, the fatality rate increases significantly. again, not an opinion, just physics. what this data point shows is that as speed goes down, an accident is more likely to occur. the biggest factor that changes speed is location. the more attention a location requires while driving, the lower the speed so as to offer drivers more time to react to changing conditions. that's how city planning works.

the leading causes of vehicle accidents are distraction, fatigue, intoxication, and aggressive driving. when these factors come in to play, all of them have a significant value in common; the more actions a driver has to commit, the more likely they are to cause a problem. when you are city driving you commit far more actions per minute than highway/freeway driving. you are also interacting with far more drivers than you would on a highway/freeway. an accident occurs when one or more vehicles fails to adjust properly to a change in driving condition.

what these mean is that the NHTSA study you keep talking about looked at which speed brackets drivers were most likely to have an accident. the reality is most accidents happen under 40mph (65km/h) because those are city driving speeds, and the 30-40mph range is the most deadly because that's the bracket that is most likely to involve two or more vehicles travelling at a high enough rate of speed to cause fatalities. which is also why when you go to the brackets that are 5-10mph above city speeds, the accident rates and fatalities drop off significantly; the conditions that cause accidents are far less likely to occur. that is why the 30mph bracket accounts for twice the serious injuries and fatalities than the 60mph bracket. this doesn't mean that going faster is safer. it means that the places where people travel at 60mph are less likely to result in an accident.

all of this is to say that viewing speed as the only factor in what plays into accident rates is pointless and foolhardy. what speed does as a determining factor is tell you where and when accidents are more likely to occur. that's it.


If you can't show where you get your information from, that's an opinion. I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm saying if you're going to address things you should cite sources or anybody will view your information as nothing more than words. And I'm also not talking about urban vs rural. NHTSA's study was done on increased speeds on the highways over the course of 20 years. I'm also talking about highways with speed limits vs highways where certain sections are without. Areas where speed limits have increased, accidents dropped. Many roadways with no speed limits have been shown to have less accidents than roadways with speed limits. You don't buy a radar detector for city driving, most of the time you can barely hit the speed limit in a city with all the other drivers.
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Sep 2 2020 04:15am
Quote (kurisutofa @ Sep 1 2020 03:48pm)
If you can't show where you get your information from, that's an opinion. I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm saying if you're going to address things you should cite sources or anybody will view your information as nothing more than words. And I'm also not talking about urban vs rural. NHTSA's study was done on increased speeds on the highways over the course of 20 years. I'm also talking about highways with speed limits vs highways where certain sections are without. Areas where speed limits have increased, accidents dropped. Many roadways with no speed limits have been shown to have less accidents than roadways with speed limits. You don't buy a radar detector for city driving, most of the time you can barely hit the speed limit in a city with all the other drivers.


no, its not.

an opinion is "i think higher speeds are safer, because XYZ."

an understanding of data is "this is what the data point referenced in the study is actually saying."

its not an opinion, its a professional understanding of how human spatial datasets work and how to interpret them. i literally looked at the data YOU referenced. get your head out of your ass.
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Sep 2 2020 04:42am
Quote (Sonicgundam @ Sep 2 2020 06:15am)
no, its not.

an opinion is "i think higher speeds are safer, because XYZ."

an understanding of data is "this is what the data point referenced in the study is actually saying."

its not an opinion, its a professional understanding of how human spatial datasets work and how to interpret them. i literally looked at the data YOU referenced. get your head out of your ass.


I didn’t link any sources. So how are you doing it to the sources I provided? You seem to he one of those people that thinks their opinions are fact end everybody else is wrong.
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Sep 2 2020 06:42pm
Harder to get a good detector now since they use laser. Jammers only go so far and they can probably tell you're using one. you can try Waze which can tell you where speed traps are when someone notices one and reports it on the app
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