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Aug 13 2020 02:10pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 13 Aug 2020 20:13)
He curb stomped ISIS. It was barely functional when Trump took office and their final execution was already planned and handed to Trump.


Sorry, but are you fucking kidding me? It was the Russian deployment of actual troops on the ground that decided the Syrian civil war. The Assad regime was on the ropes in mid-2015, defections from high-ranking officers picked up pace, ISIS and the (by then) Al-Quaeda-dominated "Syrian rebels" gained more and more ground. Then, in the fall of 2015, the Russians went in with boots on the ground and quickly turned the tide of the war against both ISIS and the opposition.

Western bombings of ISIS contributed, but they were not the prime cause of ISIS' downfall; and they picked up pace only after the Russian involvement in 2015 anyway.


Yes, ISIS was functionally defeated when Obama left office, but he was not the one to make any key contributions to their defeat - by the time American forces got really involved, ISIS was already in unstoppable decline. And it should not be forgotten that Obama's inaction was one of the reasons ISIS could become big in the first place. Dito for the Syrian opposition, which was eventually usurped by islamists.



Credit for the defeat of ISIS goes something like 40% Kurds, 40% Russians, 20% NATO.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 13 2020 02:11pm
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Aug 13 2020 02:33pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 13 2020 03:27pm)
To me this just shows how completely unrealistic you are towards foreign policy... as if it's always possible to get a great outcome. Bush tried maximum pressure to force regime change, Obama cut a deal to stop Iran's nuclear program, and it was working, until Trump brought back the Bush playbook of naive dreams of regime change. In the process, we've ensured that another deal can't happen because the hardliners, who never wanted a deal, were shown to be right that the US can't keep it's word. The regime is still standing, and their behavior has been troublesome. What lesson should North Korea take from that? Obama tried to counter China by deepening our economic ties to their neighbors, which would probably have been more effective than Trump's unilateral trade war. But the reality show star killed that deal as well.

Sure, you can point to individual countries where our alliances are stronger, like Israel and Saudi Arabia. But on the whole, you'd have to admit that US alliances under Bush got worse, and under Trump have gotten worse. If Trump wins a second term there's no telling how destructive it will be for our alliances. He'd probably pull us out of NATO, which at least the pre-Trump Bogie might care about.


It isn't always possible to get a good outcome. In the case of Iran, sanctions were successful and domestic unrest was destabilizing the regime. That's not a "good" outcome, as the regime continues to exist, but it's not a bad one either, as the ability of Iran to project force regionally has been greatly reduced, and domestic unrest was making interventionism costly.

Obama negotiated poorly from a position of strength and cut a desperate deal to appease a donestic audience (and presumably bolster those Nobel Peace prize credentials). The deal gave Iran a clear roadmap to a bomb via sunset provisions, along with suspect enforcement (as Iran itself said, military sites were "off limits") and hundreds of billions of dollars in effective monetary relief.

Iran reacted predictably, and proceeded to wage proxy wars throughout the region that have continued to this day. The Gulf states felt abandoned, and that insecurity and paranoia has manifested itself in the Saudi invasion of Yemen.

I've been a long-standing proponent of the TPP, although we'll never really know how exactly it might have looked. Trump was wrong to discontinue talks. But he has been right to aggressively press American interests on China to a greater degree than any previous administration in recent memory. Trump is not wrong to pressure American allies into renegotiating imbalanced trade treaties. Once upon a time the United States might have been able to finance the prosperity of other, poorer nations. But they're no longer poor, and the United States can no longer afford the cost.

Trump should not and will not pull the United States out of NATO, but it is long past time that the United States demand greater contributions from our European allies, especially when it comes to defending European affairs. The United States is fundamentally a Pacific power, and the US won't always have the luxury of fighting wars on all fronts at all times. As the United States pivots to Asia, Europe will have to do more to manage its own affairs.
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Aug 13 2020 02:41pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 13 Aug 2020 14:14)
how brave of him to kill his own creation, he's basically Abraham but with the balls to see it through.

lol'd
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Aug 14 2020 08:09am
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Aug 14 2020 05:31pm


Kamakamakamakama kama chamelionnnnnnnnn

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Aug 14 2020 05:31pm
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Aug 16 2020 07:52am
Just a reminder from after the primaries-

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Aug 16 2020 08:50am
so the orange turd in chief claimed something bad about kamala harris birth and her right to be vp?
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Aug 16 2020 12:34pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 16 Aug 2020 15:52)
Just a reminder from after the primaries-

https://files.catbox.moe/5k21pv.webm


Some really "tough questioning" and "critical journalism" right there, lol.
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Aug 16 2020 07:47pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 16 Aug 2020 14:34)
Some really "tough questioning" and "critical journalism" right there, lol.

“Kamala who was better in 1985 Tupac or Snoop” lmfao
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