You heavily implied it, since it's the only way the ridiculous notion that "they" could keep the sequencing of a virus secret.

I have no problem with your interpretation. That is for your own personal use. But I know, you don’t really think that way. Maybe you should stick to pard, where your bs is more useful.

i do believe many governments are working towards a common goal on some things, simply because they are ruled by the same handful of people, and those people dont care about most things governments do so they dont interfere in that sometimes someone goes their own way (china atm), we will see how it goes but i dont predict anything good for china

as for making some ultimate 100% mortality outbreak level shit, im pretty sure thats not even possible right now as for corona, again, based on the bloodwork ive seen, i am fairly certain it did originate in bats (naturally or on purpose, but bats were most definitely used). this is because bats have an insane immune system with naturally high interferon levels, so the viruses that live in bats have to first be able to lower the hosts immune reaction (like ebola, marburg, nipah, hendra, and in this case corona), and then attack. their incubation time is relatively long because of this though, and you will never see a virus like in the movie outbreak also since bats basically have higher temp when they fly, those viruses are also heat resistant

basically this means that something that makes a bat sneeze, can fuck a human up relatively hard we just had luck that corona doesnt have a high potential for actually killing cells, just suppressing the immune response

The virus has been sequenced and all the markers point to natural evolution, as opposed to human modifications. Human modifications are pretty obvious when you sequence things, so we can be confident it wasn't man-made or man-modified.

I haven't read any updates on how it got to humans, but a few months ago the researchers were saying the most likely route was pangolins -> bats -> humans, or bats -> pangolins -> humans. In china there's millions of rural farmers that regularly go into bat caves to get guano as fertilizer, so things getting on them from bats isn't a stretch in the slightest.

i appreciate your respectful tone, where everyone is welcome to their own opinion i wish others who are more grounded in alternative medicine share the same perspective.

i also believe that there is no simple answer, science has provided significant break throughs (my personal belief that vaccines and antibiotics are fine in correct doses) but i am sure there is the ability to go over board.

This is a neat debate, an gene vs. environment clash early in history. Thanks for sharing.

Modern science is 100% open to "alternative medicine". The problem is that all current "alternative medicine" has no evidence. The medicine that has evidence gets quickly incorporated into the body of scientific knowledge, the mechanism is figured out, and it is made useful.

Do you know how we figured out aspirin? People used to chew on the bark of the aspirin tree to alleviate aches and pains. Pharmaceuticals figured out how to isolate the compound and synthesize it from scratch so it could be manufactured without growing the whole tree. We now know exactly how it works and have designed other, more effective drugs, to do the same thing.

There is no current body of effective "alternative medicine". Not homeopathy, not chiropractic, not anything because when it works those pharmaceutical companies figure it out, sell it, and improve on it.


Now, that's not to say there isn't an issue with modern pharmaceuticals. There's serious incentive to get treatments to as many people as possible, regardless of the need, which has resulted in the opiate epidemic. But that's a separate issue compared to the acceptance of alternative medicine.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Sep 15 2020 01:32pm

i dont even need to sequence it, the clinical presentation alone suggests bats as the source very strongly, it has a very specific immune system avoidance and seems to be quite resistant to a lot of stuffs however, if you get an outbreak in the only place in the country with a bsl4 lab and a population that is about 3/4 of a percent of the total population of the country, shit starts to get weird. also wuhan...isnt really a place with rural farming and bat caves also, have you seen chinese work ethics? well, neither have i. and i worked with some chinese people. they dont abide to any safety standards whatsoever, just try to get the job done and go home. which is why i lean towards the theory that the scientists in the wuhan lab were selling used animals on the market. having worked with chinese people, this is 100% what they would do

which again makes me lean towards the theory that the chinese knew about the virus. it probably got loose by accident, but i dont think the outbreak started there by accident at all

Your claim that 'I know because of it's immune pattern" isn't very good evidence. You're over-simplifying an amazingly complicated field.

You're also venturing into pretty racist territory with the whole "I know some Chinese people therefore all Chinese people are like this" Just gonna leave it at that and hope you reflect on it.

As a lab worker who uses live animal models, I'll also say that "selling used animals in a market" is ridiculous. It would be far more trouble than it's worth. You're not going to get much for them, and it's gonna be a bitch and a half to sell them. Aint nobody got time for that. Your time is much better served doing lab work rather than some weird on-the-side animal selling scheme.

Wuhan isn't rural, but it gets a ton of rural traffic. All it takes is for Wuhan to be the first heavily populated place it gets to. It doesn't necessarily have to originate from there, there just needs to be a rural farmer that comes to Wuhan first and infects somebody at the market. By far the most likely route of human transmission went Pangolin -> Bat -> Rural Farmer -> Wuhan. There's thousands of possible transmission events every day just from people naturally interacting with nature, so any kind of claim that humans created the virus needs.

Anyway, if you're actually interested in this you should listen to opinions of experts and go out of your way to track down where stories start, because otherwise you end up believing a lot of very outlandish things.

ive taken kickboxing classes and there was a lot of rules we had to learn, for example when you are going for a front hook, you have to pull the arm back in a specific way, then rotate the knee in a specific way, then start the hook from the foot, then knee, then hip, then the shoulder and arm, have a 90 degree angle between the upper arm and the torso, have a 90 degree angle between the upper arm and forearm etc.. but then you see an experienced kickboxer. all those rules, hes not thinking about them, he has enough experience that he goes fully by muscle memory, and he will do it better than you. what im trying to say is, i work in the medical field, ive seen a shitload of these, and i know a bat virus when i see it

LOL "just gonna leave it there and hope you reflect on it" - this was the single most leftist sentence ive seen this whole year if lets say only 5% white people try to rob you while 50% gypsies to the same, with a large enough sample you can safely say gypsies tend to be robbers. ive had a large enough sample, i can literally do a chi squared test here and now and show you the results. stop mixing statistics with racism. i hope you reflect on this

i believe you, but who knows, maybe the pricing is different in china im not saying this has to be the correct theory, its just the one that i believe the most

its not THAT rural as you make it sound. also the first patients had no connection to farming of any kind or havent even visited that market. also the entire province is about 4% of the total population, still way too low to be better than the bat selling theory.

please dont patronize. you have no idea what im doing for work, how many experts ive listened to, and how many corona patients ive seen. remember, a person who doesnt believe any conspiracy theories is as dumb as the one who believes them all, possibly even dumber

I work in the medical field too. All your claim of "I know a bat virus when I see it" says is that you don't know your own limits.

Please do a chi squared test. I would absolutely love you to set this up and walk me through it, and then explain what you think this proves, all the while not realizing the only thing you've proven is your own lack of understanding.

I'm not patronizing you. I'm recognizing that you don't have a good grasp on where the limits of your knowledge are. I work in the medical field, and more specifically I work in medical research at a top research school. Unless you're a Ph.D virologist (and I know you aren't because of the stupid shit you've already said) you aren't educated enough to reasonably come to the conclusions you've made.