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Mar 29 2020 12:28pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 29 Mar 2020 18:04)
What is and isn't a "good" reason is an opinion. I haven't been shown any reasons that are convincing, or that I would consider good.



I thought there was something about the consciousness part that made you wonder.

So you're perfectly with rejecting all arguments for God's existence, the historical record and your inner longings? With the alternative of what, if I may ask?

I find it crazy that people reject our only hope, and the best reasons and explanations as to why anything at all exist.


A difference between Christianity and atheism would be the light and hope that Christianity offers, while atheism is left in scepticism that ultimately lead to hopelessness and a meaningless existence that came to be from unexplainable and lucky little accidents. Everything will end with the heat death of the universe, while offering no reasonable reasons to withhold it's position.

This post was edited by LazyDazy on Mar 29 2020 12:50pm
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Mar 29 2020 01:01pm
Quote (LazyDazy @ Mar 29 2020 01:28pm)
So you're perfectly with rejecting all arguments for God's existence, the historical record and your inner longings? With the alternative of what, if I may ask?


I do not need an alternative. If you and I walk up to a jar of jelly beans and I say "This jar of jelly beans has 5423 jelly beans in it" you don't have to posit an alternative to reject that count. I am rejecting the arguments I've heard as good reasons to believe, but that doesn't mean I am saying something else is a better explanation.

Quote (LazyDazy @ Mar 29 2020 01:28pm)
I find it crazy that people reject our only hope, and the best reasons and explanations as to why anything at all exist.


Even if I accept that the reasons you give are "the best reasons" that still doesn't mean they are good reasons, or convincing reasons. In the same way the fastest turtle is very slow, the best arguments for any religious world view are very poorly reasoned.
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Mar 29 2020 04:23pm
Quote (LazyDazy @ Mar 29 2020 10:28am)
I thought there was something about the consciousness part that made you wonder.

So you're perfectly with rejecting all arguments for God's existence, the historical record and your inner longings? With the alternative of what, if I may ask?

What evidence? Contradicting accounts written by supposed eye witnesses, years after the events, translated multiple times and spread through conquest and colonization? Any intro psych class will also explain why eye witness accounts are unreliable as it is, and basic knowledge of world history will explain why popular religion is strongly linked to region. Your belief in Christianity is, arguably, strongly based on where you live. Nothing else.

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I find it crazy that people reject our only hope, and the best reasons and explanations as to why anything at all exist.

May as well pray to Pachamama, Vishnu, or any other number of deities. After all, they have just as much evidence as Christianity.


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A difference between Christianity and atheism would be the light and hope that Christianity offers, while atheism is left in scepticism that ultimately lead to hopelessness and a meaningless existence that came to be from unexplainable and lucky little accidents. Everything will end with the heat death of the universe, while offering no reasonable reasons to withhold it's position.


The difference is one holds on to a fairy tale to make them feel good, fearing their existence is meaningless otherwise. :(
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Mar 31 2020 03:07pm
Quote (LazyDazy @ Mar 26 2020 01:29pm)
In other religions you have to work your way towards righteousness and live in uncertainty if God is pleased, which turn many people away from God.

The Christian message of the gospel is that God died for You, in the movement you take the leap of faith in Jesus you are made righteous by Him. What a relief, a life in hope and wonder of creation as a whole and the destiny that awaits!



Actually, Jesus contradicts that in the gospels. Paul is the one who created that false doctrine, which is in his writings and explicitly not found in the gospels.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Mar 31 2020 03:08pm
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Mar 31 2020 04:20pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ 31 Mar 2020 23:07)
Actually, Jesus contradicts that in the gospels. Paul is the one who created that false doctrine, which is in his writings and explicitly not found in the gospels.


What would you say the right understanding is? What exactly is Jesus contradicting in the gospels compared to what Paul is preaching?
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Mar 31 2020 05:41pm
Christianity:

washing feet
laying hands
breaking bread
healing


Judeo-Christianity:

watch CEO of church talk to a camera
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Mar 31 2020 08:49pm
Quote (LazyDazy @ Mar 31 2020 03:20pm)
What would you say the right understanding is? What exactly is Jesus contradicting in the gospels compared to what Paul is preaching?



Paul is the one who taught salvation by faith, Jesus taught salvation by works.
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Mar 31 2020 08:57pm
Quote (LazyDazy @ 1 Apr 2020 00:20)
What would you say the right understanding is? What exactly is Jesus contradicting in the gospels compared to what Paul is preaching?


Sorry to ask, you are yourself a self made pastor isnt'it ?
Congrats, but what about being a priest ?
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Mar 31 2020 09:02pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Mar 31 2020 10:49pm)
Paul is the one who taught salvation by faith, Jesus taught salvation by works.


The works vs faith argument is a deep one in Christianity. Every mainstream denomination(as far as I know) agrees that nobody works their way to heaven, we are given grace by God to get there.

But explain to me what would Jesus's purpose be to come to earth if following the Law was the way to heaven? What was the purpose of His death?
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Apr 1 2020 01:20am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 1 Apr 2020 04:57)
Sorry to ask, you are yourself a self made pastor isnt'it ?
Congrats, but what about being a priest ?


A self made pastor. I wouldn't dare to call myself that, that's not my intention what so ever. However, the Bible does teach in some regard that all believers are priests before God and our fellow man.
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But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.


But I don't consciously think of myself as any of those.


Quote (inkanddagger @ 1 Apr 2020 04:49)
Paul is the one who taught salvation by faith, Jesus taught salvation by works.


As IceMage is saying. The way I have been taught and understand the gospels is that both works and faith are taught indeed. However, The teachings of the law is to open your eyes that you're a sinner. While Jesus is telling his followers not to sin and be holy he also forgives. When people comes to Him, It's by their faith they are cured from the bondage of their sins. When Jesus hangs on the cross, He is telling one of the thiefs, also being crucified, that by His faith he will enter Heaven with Him on the same day.
There are many other examples of Jesus forgiving the outcasts of society. He is heavily accusing the established Jewish synagogue that taught salvation by works and became hypocrites in thwir own blindness. Jesus died on that cross as a final message of the depravity of the human race and the grace and love of God towards mankind. Jesus was resurrected and by his blood we are washed clean - he paved the path towards a living relationship with God, that by faith in Him we are forgiven, blessed in righteousness. Even David in the old testement taught this doctrine of truth, "blessed is the man that God forgives".
Isaiah hundreds of years before Jesus profetized of the Son of God who would come to earth, being ripped apart by hungry lions, hung on a tree, pierced for our transgression, you can read the whole thing here and f you want.
And let me end with John verse 3.16 that says "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

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Who has believed what he has heard from us?[a]
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
3
He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows[c] and acquainted with[d] grief;[e]
and as one from whom men hide their faces[f]
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5
But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
6
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
8
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
9
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

10
Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;[g]
when his soul makes[h] an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11
Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.
12
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,[j]
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,[k]
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.
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