it's really sad (but hardly surprising) that you're not even aware of how seriously you're being mislead. just in their last debate, biden lied about his record on social security, about not being the driving democratic force behind the devastating bankruptcy bill, mislead about his support for the iraq war, and he also lied when he said bernie was supported by super pacs for example.
he also reapeatedly lies about things like having played an important role in crafting the paris climate accord, and being arrested for trying to visit nelson mandela. did any of that get fact checked and exposed on main stream media? had sanders repeatedly lied about things like that to pander to certain demographics you KNOW we wouldn't hear the end of it.

your turn now. go ahead and list some lies that bernie told during that debate, to justify your ridiculous false equivalence.

again, the bias is obvious and substantial, and it's also easily explainable given msm's financing: https://medium.com/@ryansullivan000/manufacturing-dissent-the-medias-bias-against-bernie-sanders-a84e97d947cb

This post was edited by fender on Mar 23 2020 01:16am

You really gotta love Gabbard's timing of her drop out.

Somehow getting beat by 50+ points in Virgina on Super Tuesday and 50+ in Michigan the next week wasn't enough to drop out, but getting schlonged by 60 points in Florida is?

She was once an interesting political figure in Dem circles but has made a complete meme of herself during this election cycle.

This post was edited by ThatAlex on Mar 23 2020 11:10am

I'm working so I can't fill out a detailed response at the moment but I'll give you one in about 10 hours. I was speaking in general but if you want to talk about the most recent debate specifically, that's fine too.
1. Biden has been pretty straight about his Iraq War vote. Ultimately, he failed in judgment in that he trusted the Bush administration to do the right thing. It was a bad vote in hindsight and he's been pretty open about that.
2. Sanders is intentionally misleading people regarding Biden's SS record: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/12/bernie-sanders/sanders-misleading-social-security-attack-biden/ This is standard out of context stuff and it happens all the time in politics. Republicans are the best at doing this.
3. If you don't think Sanders lies in order to PANDER to CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHICS then you have no business discussing politics. That's one of the most obvious things there is...
4. Bernie IS supported by some Super PACs! Obviously not all Super PACs are equal (some have significantly more dark money) but it's a stupid discussion anyway. Candidates can't control Super PAC spending b/c it's just a bunch of people with common interests. Again, I'm not trying to equate Biden's Super PACs with Sanders'. They are obviously NOT equal. I'm just saying it's a stupid discussion. FYI, here are the NINE Super PACs Biden was referring to: Center for Popular Democracy Action, Democratic Socialists of America, Dream Defenders, Make the Road, Our Revolution, People's Action, Student Action, Progressive Democrats of America, and the Sunrise Movement.
5. Yes, a lot of the things Biden says are fact checked:
- https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/04/joe-biden/joe-bidens-pants-fire-claim-about-his-arrest-south/
-https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/sep/05/joe-biden/oe-biden-falsely-claims-he-immediately-opposed-ira/
Seriously, what world do you live in?

Like I said, I can give you more sources later on but I wanted to give you a preview of what's coming. All of this stuff is widely available though and I'm sure you can look some of this stuff up without my assistance. Please reply with what you find and we can debate it.

derpy has been stuck on "voters exit polls show they like bernies direction" for a month solid. he cant understand why anyone wouldnt want immediate changes that they pay for immediately.

if you apply his "logic" all sorts of slow changes in the progressive direction its clearly silly.

"i see u want less pollutants but still dont carpool to work, and flew on a plane last year"

"i see you want more electric cars but didnt trade your car in"

"i see you want less factory farmed meat but also bought a bag of frozen chicken from walmart"

"i see you want less gun violence but didn't vote for an assault weapons ban with forced buybacks"

etc etc etc

reasonable people the world over are for a crawl towards progressive goals, few want to sprint to them. and to the left wing dingbats who do want to sprint they'll come up with excuses when we all start to get cramps because we didnt stretch and warmup.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 23 2020 11:17am

Yep. She will never be taken seriously again.

Good point. Never thought that would have much to do with Trump's presidency. This whole country is about Trump. Its like because certain democrats that did something to turn down so many of there former voters and all of a sudden they became Trump supporters. Leadership skills did not work for people in the past because of this.

1. biden is everything BUT straight on his iraq vote. his justifications and excuses are not just constantly 'evolving', but also completely contradicted by facts, for which there is plenty of evidence. some examples: he now claims that he was 'mislead' by bush, and didn't actually believe saddam to have WMDs, but that is a LIE. in 2002, he passionately promoted the war on the floor of the senate, suggesting that saddam has WMDs: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2002-10-10/html/CREC-2002-10-10-pt1-PgS10233-7.htm

biden also claimed multiple times that he opposed the war even before it began, which is also a demonstrable LIE. from a speech nine months INTO the war:

“Nine months ago, I voted with my colleagues to give the president of the United States of America the authority to use force, and I would vote that way again today. It was the right vote then and it would be a correct vote today
[...]
Contrary to what some in my party might think, Iraq was a problem that had to be dealt with sooner, rather than later. So I commend the president.”

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/20030731.pdf


2. biden has repeatedly advocated cuts to social security, and proudly touted his record on that. the record is clear, and the LIAR on this is undeniably biden:

"When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security as well. I meant Medicare and Medicaid. I meant veterans benefits. I meant every single solitary thing in the government. And I not only tried it once, I tried it twice, I tried it a third time, and I tried it a fourth time."

politifact trying to spin that as 'misleading' by sanders, just because biden didn't use literally every opportunity to advocate for cutting social security, is a very dishonest attempt to muddy the waters and distract from the core criticism, which is that biden has a very questionable record when it comes to social programs, and repeatedly supported cutting them.


3. well, then it should be easy for you to provide some examples of that. i'm waiting. remember the kind of LIES and outrageous fabrications we're talking about: being arrested trying to visit nelson mandela, claiming to having played a crucial part in a popular agreement, when multiple people demonstrably involved, rejected that claim... i severly doubt you will find anything even close to that on sanders, otherwise it would have made national headlines for weeks.


4. those are NOT super pacs, you're just uncritically repeating biden's LIE. they are progressive nonprofits. also, remember the context of this exchange, which was sanders' argument about special interest influence on politics. how could any halfway reasonable person suggest those groups are similar to big oil / big pharma / the military industrial complex / insurance industry / wall street... that all have significant investments in biden's campaign, but not in sanders'? that's misleading and dishonest af.

5. refer to #2 when it comes to the substantial lies on policy, and i'm still waiting for debate moderators on MSM to platform that kind of fact checking on the national stage, when people are actually watching.


also, please address biden's lies about the bankruptcy bill. i noticed how you ignored that part.
the only 'substantial' thing you have to support your false equivalence between biden's and sanders' lying is a politifact spin that does not even refute bernie's core criticism of biden's record at all, just uses semantics to give it a 'misleading' rating.






what YOU are stuck on is the obviously erroneous notion that ANY politician (no matter the party and label they give themselves), who is controlled by special interest, would ever seriously attempt even a 'crawl towards progressive goals' - as if you didn't have plenty opportunities to learn that lesson.

the whole 'let's not go crazy with it' (or how pete put it: 'plenty bold') narrative, which completely ignores that 'crazy' is really just universally accepted baseline in every one of america's peer countries, is pure appeasement propaganda. and you people are stupid enough to fall for it over and over again...

This post was edited by fender on Mar 23 2020 01:57pm

whoa, you're not blocked at my house, yet.

strange that we've had special interest controlled politicians for almost a century and still america has slowly moved in a progressive direction. more workplace safety, equal rights for sexual orientation and race, gun control, environmental regulation, building codes, etc.

odd isn't it that these people slowly over time are forced to make changes against corporate interests due to mounting pressure from their electorates? crazy how that works.

to put numbers to it, you want progress to move at a 3, currently it moves at a .5, i'd be happier with it moving at a 1.

now write an essay about how over 100 years we actually havent progressed at all, wrangle in some SCOTUS sources to show they had no choice, say the progress didnt matter anyways, and dont forget to talk about how among all of this the USA still sucks. i wont read it, you'll be blocked at my house in a minute or so. but enjoy yourself doing it.

i don't have to write an essay. i can just tell you to look up what appeasement means, and then compare what you've got to literally every single one of america's peer countries. takes a particularly stupid sheep to defend the wolves, and you're the prototype for special interest's perfect little foot soldier.

now back to pretending you have me blocked please, it's funnier when you keep reading my posts and have to act like you didn't even though you're clearly triggered and can't help but replying to them, lol...

I know you're talking about Trump and Biden, but which one is which in this example?