d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Should Bernie Drop Out ?
Prev15678910Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 51,243
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,400.67
Mar 18 2020 12:24pm
This tweet really aged well :rofl:



This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 18 2020 12:24pm
Member
Posts: 90,626
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,489.69
Mar 18 2020 12:29pm
Quote (Testiclese @ Mar 18 2020 01:07pm)
Bernie more relaistic than Yang; that doesn't mean I didn't hope.


in the perspective of potus i 100% agree, but their ideas are equally outside of the norm for american politics. and imo yang has a better shot at a cabinet seat or being a consultant than bernie. it was all or nothing for him.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 18 2020 12:29pm
Member
Posts: 64,656
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 260.11
Mar 18 2020 12:54pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 18 2020 01:24pm)
This tweet really aged well :rofl:

https://i.imgur.com/WkzNG6q.jpg


Thats normal primary puffery. Theres not much that makes it age poorly unless you're just not used to primaries
Member
Posts: 51,243
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,400.67
Mar 18 2020 01:51pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 18 Mar 2020 19:54)
Thats normal primary puffery. Theres not much that makes it age poorly unless you're just not used to primaries


... and they call me a cultist...

This tweet came at the moment when Bernie was at his peak, right after he won the Nevada caucus and looked, for a brief moment, like he could run away with the nomination on Super Tuesday. In this pivotal moment, instead of reaching out to the rest of the party, he succumbed to his own hybris and more or less said: "damn right, this is indeed a hostile takeover, my movement and me, we will ram our ideology down your throats, whether you like it or not". The rest is history.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 18 2020 01:52pm
Member
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Sep 10 2004
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 20%
Mar 20 2020 12:01am
Quote (fender @ 17 Mar 2020 22:22)
you're just scratching the surface of the issue though. go just one layer deeper: what is the reason the progressive platform has 'underwhelmed'? is it because progressive IDEAS and goals are rejected? hardly. bernie's 2016 campaign actually shifted the entire democratic platform to at least pander to progressivism.
i'd argue it's because of a massive campaign to discredit the policies to implement them. fearmongering about 'socialism', and suggesting bernie's ideas are 'crazy, too radical, and unrealistic' (even though they work fine in the rest of the world, and are accepted by both right and left wing parties) play a large role with such an uninformed and divided electorate. spreading the ridiculous 'electability' narrative, in order to dissuade people from supporting progressives out of fear of 4 more years of trump is also a big factor - as is, of course, the abysmal turnout from the generations that stands to lose the most. idiots.

is this primary a true vote on two equally specific and serious PLANS to solve the underlying issues, or is it much more a race between a relentlessly maligned candidate, promoting policies and values he's advocated for decades, going against the vague promises of someone acting like they had solutions that could unite the (artificially) divided country without any drawbacks (even though his political record unmistakenly illustrates that he will never defy his donors, who don't want ANY of that), who is being supported by his party's extremely powerful establishment, the media (that is controlled by and dependent on the same corporations), who never has his record and promises questioned and examined?

in order for your 'argument', which is exclusively about optics, to make sense, you'd have to assume that people who are fooled by / scared into / just used to voting like this, could be tricked the same way into supporting progressive causes, if they just avoided the look of 'losing'. what that talking point ignores, however, is that those causes simply don't have the infrastructure to run such a large scale misinformation and propaganda scheme. lobbyists made sure this corruption would be protected by those who craft and pass laws.

so i would argue that trying to win over those who actually care about substance, and want the system to change, to work for the people again, is the most promising approach. platforming progressive ideas on the national stage, and exposing the corrupt establishment and biased media, is the only way to open people's eyes and generate any meaningful support. just withdrawing and exclusively letting lobbyists frame the political discourse, does not sound like a long term winning strategy to me.
could you maybe describe the kind of person who you think would support progressive causes, but will not do so just because bernie doesn't immediately drop out when the dnc wants him to? that's what i meant by 'reality based argument' earlier. to me that just sounds like the figment of some spin doctor's imagination, just another dishonest way to malign a progressive candidate and push him out of the race.


just to further support this point:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/elections/exit-polls-florida-primary.html

it clearly illustrates how on the ISSUES, voters are much more aligned with bernie, but they still vote for biden because of the idiotic "electability" myth (trump will relentlessly attack biden's mental decline, countless gaffes and lies, and his political record - all areas in which bernie would be vastly superior) and dnc / msm fearmongering, misinformation, and bias.
covid 19, its economic impact, and trump's incompetence in addressing it, is actually the only thing that gives biden a realistic shot. without it, trump would have obliterated him.
Member
Posts: 2,660
Joined: Mar 28 2010
Gold: 0.00
Mar 20 2020 12:11am
Quote (fender @ Mar 20 2020 01:01am)
just to further support this point:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/elections/exit-polls-florida-primary.html

it clearly illustrates how on the ISSUES, voters are much more aligned with bernie, but they still vote for biden because of the idiotic "electability" myth (trump will relentlessly attack biden's mental decline, countless gaffes and lies, and his political record - all areas in which bernie would be vastly superior) and dnc / msm fearmongering, misinformation, and bias.
covid 19, its economic impact, and trump's incompetence in addressing it, is actually the only thing that gives biden a realistic shot. without it, trump would have obliterated him.


Voters support the public option. They support moderate climate change legislation. They dont support tripling the deficit or getting rid of private insurance. Biden represents their stances much closer than Bernie.
Member
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Sep 10 2004
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 20%
Mar 20 2020 12:19am
Quote (krackprophet @ 20 Mar 2020 07:11)
Voters support the public option. They support moderate climate change legislation. They dont support tripling the deficit or getting rid of private insurance. Biden represents their stances much closer than Bernie.


read that part again:

Quote
is this primary a true vote on two equally specific and serious PLANS to solve the underlying issues, or is it much more a race between a relentlessly maligned candidate, promoting policies and values he's advocated for decades, going against the vague promises of someone acting like they had solutions that could unite the (artificially) divided country without any drawbacks (even though his political record unmistakenly illustrates that he will never defy his donors, who don't want ANY of that), who is being supported by his party's extremely powerful establishment, the media (that is controlled by and dependent on the same corporations), who never has his record and promises questioned and examined?
Member
Posts: 2,660
Joined: Mar 28 2010
Gold: 0.00
Mar 20 2020 05:57am
Quote (fender @ Mar 20 2020 01:19am)
read that part again:


That part doesn't change anything. Bernie's serious plans got denied by the voters. Biden's vague promises have a higher chance of actually accomplishing something.
Member
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Sep 10 2004
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 20%
Mar 20 2020 09:42am
Quote (krackprophet @ 20 Mar 2020 12:57)
That part doesn't change anything. Bernie's serious plans got denied by the voters. Biden's vague promises have a higher chance of actually accomplishing something.


you think america will get universal healthcare under biden? public option? is that what you're suggesting?

This post was edited by fender on Mar 20 2020 09:44am
Member
Posts: 15,467
Joined: Sep 15 2007
Gold: 475.46
Mar 20 2020 11:17am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 18 2020 12:24pm)
This tweet really aged well :rofl:

https://i.imgur.com/WkzNG6q.jpg


Oh how dare he be optimistic lol.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev15678910Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll