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May 29 2020 09:37pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 29 2020 10:21pm)
You're misunderstanding the move. It's about pulling the rug out from under the WHO's reputation. The goal, aside from saving some money, is to delegitimize the WHO as a 'global' institution which is really representing the international community. It fits neatly into the larger pattern of Trump being really hostile to all forms and institutions of global governance.

At it's core, this is a disagreement about how the U.S. should exert influence in the world: via influence within institutions of global governance like the WHO or the UN, or via a system of bi- and trilateral cooperation between like-minded nations.
In the concrete case here, we have a global institution in which the U.S. was shouldering a disproportionate share of the burden without being rewarded with a correspondingly disproportionate amount of power, and with the institution furthering the geopolitical goals of its rival China.

Not saying that I necessarily agree with this assessment and approach, but it's worth pointing out that there's more to it than just "Trump fell into a fit of rage".


Oh, yeah, sorry. I assumed Trump was interested in being responsible and not just playing ineffective games.

There is no point to "pulling the rug out from under the WHO's reputation" without an alternative. The money is a pathetically small amount for the level of benefit we get.
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May 29 2020 10:06pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 29 2020 11:37pm)
Oh, yeah, sorry. I assumed Trump was interested in being responsible and not just playing ineffective games.

There is no point to "pulling the rug out from under the WHO's reputation" without an alternative. The money is a pathetically small amount for the level of benefit we get.


The WHO singlehandedly ruined the world's COVID response.
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May 29 2020 10:07pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ May 29 2020 11:06pm)
The WHO singlehandedly ruined the world's COVID response.


South Korea and Germany say otherwise.
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May 29 2020 10:11pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 30 2020 12:07am)
South Korea and Germany say otherwise.



I dont see the benefit they bring

And the president has a stupid name
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May 29 2020 10:17pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 30 May 2020 05:37)
Oh, yeah, sorry. I assumed Trump was interested in being responsible and not just playing ineffective games.

There is no point to "pulling the rug out from under the WHO's reputation" without an alternative. The money is a pathetically small amount for the level of benefit we get.


Which benefit does the U.S. get from the WHO?



Generally speaking, you have to offset the benefit the WHO is providing to the U.S. against the damage the WHO is inflicting on American interests by advancing the geopolitical goals of its rival China.


"If you legitimize our rival and spread his propaganda, you have outlived your usefulness."



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May 29 2020 10:19pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ May 29 2020 11:11pm)
I dont see the benefit they bring

And the president has a stupid name


They are literally the only game in town for world cooperation on biological threats and the tracking of emerging threats. They fulfill the global role that organizations like the CDC fill. If Trump wants to establish a new organization then go for it, but until he does that pulling out is a shit move.
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May 29 2020 10:24pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 30 2020 12:19am)
They are literally the only game in town for world cooperation on biological threats and the tracking of emerging threats. They fulfill the global role that organizations like the CDC fill. If Trump wants to establish a new organization then go for it, but until he does that pulling out is a shit move.


let it be noted that trump gutted the pandemic response team which included a cdc member on that ground in china. that person was recalled.

guys are trying to act as if trump is playing chess when all he's really trying to play whack a mole with his own head.
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May 29 2020 10:32pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 30 May 2020 06:19)
They are literally the only game in town for world cooperation on biological threats and the tracking of emerging threats. They fulfill the global role that organizations like the CDC fill. If Trump wants to establish a new organization then go for it, but until he does that pulling out is a shit move.


That would be a good point, but it is unfortunately predicated on the WHO actually doing an effective job at tracking emerging threats. And here, in the case of coronavirus, they didnt do that because they were too busy catering to Chinese PR interests.

According to the BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst, German equivalent of the CIA), president Xi has personally urged WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus to delay a global warning about coronavirus and to hold back information about human-to-human transmission during a phone call on January 21st, which according to the BND delayed the global response by around 4-6 weeks.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8304471/Chinas-president-Xi-Jinping-personally-requested-delay-COVID-19-pandemic-warning.html
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/corona-krise-bundesregierung-zweifelt-an-us-these-zur-entstehung-des-coronavirus-a-51add7cf-96b6-4d04-a2d0-71ce27cff69c

Needless to say that Tedros got to his post at the top of the WHO in a very contentious election thanks to support from China and China-allied countries in Asia and Africa, and despite questions about his fitness for the position.
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May 29 2020 10:39pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 29 2020 11:32pm)
That would be a good point, but it is unfortunately predicated on the WHO actually doing an effective job at tracking emerging threats. And here, in the case of coronavirus, they didnt do that because they were too busy catering to Chinese PR interests.

According to the BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst, German equivalent of the CIA), president Xi has personally urged WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus to delay a global warning about coronavirus and to hold back information about human-to-human transmission during a phone call on January 21st, which according to the BND delayed the global response by around 4-6 weeks.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8304471/Chinas-president-Xi-Jinping-personally-requested-delay-COVID-19-pandemic-warning.html
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/corona-krise-bundesregierung-zweifelt-an-us-these-zur-entstehung-des-coronavirus-a-51add7cf-96b6-4d04-a2d0-71ce27cff69c

Needless to say that Tedros got to his post at the top of the WHO in a very contentious election thanks to support from China and China-allied countries in Asia and Africa, and despite questions about his fitness for the position.


and like I said, they aren't perfect. but unless you're going to replace them with something then "4-6 weeks late" turns into never and you're fucked even harder.

Not like that 4-6 weeks would have mattered anyway. The countries that actually got on it (except maybe Italy) handled it well, and everybody else had their fingers up their asses (USA, UK) and wouldn't have responded even if the call had been 6 weeks earlier.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on May 29 2020 10:40pm
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May 29 2020 11:19pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 30 May 2020 06:39)
and like I said, they aren't perfect. but unless you're going to replace them with something then "4-6 weeks late" turns into never and you're fucked even harder.

Not like that 4-6 weeks would have mattered anyway. The countries that actually got on it (except maybe Italy) handled it well, and everybody else had their fingers up their asses (USA, UK) and wouldn't have responded even if the call had been 6 weeks earlier.


Nobody's perfect, and mistakes are forgivable. However, the failure of the WHO in this case was not a mistake, it was indicative of a huge, structural flaw. The WHO seems to feel more obliged to Chinese interests than to its actual mission of protecting global public health. As long as this structural flaw in the WHO isnt cured, relying on them is a danger.

You're right about Trump pissing away the time he was given though. He sat there doing nothing instead of preparing the country for what was obviously coming, and he deserves to be blasted for his inaction. It's perhaps the biggest mistake of his presidency, and at the time, I criticized him plenty for this failure to act.


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