As i recall he also appointed multiple billionaires to high ranking positions.

One bought Sec of Education flat out.

Yeah, and a guy who sued the epa 13 times and headed an oil company became head of the epa.

your claim was that


the fact that trump was able to get elected against the overwhelming elite consensus debunks this claim, no matter if trump is himself a member of the plutocracy or not.


a significant chunk of the american people wanted trump, the overwhelming majority of elites and plutcrats wanted to prevent trump, we still got trump in the end. the 46% of the american people who wanted or at least preferred Trump did make their voices heard.

this shows that the oligarchy/plutocracy that the US allegedly is is a very imperfect one. rich people have a disproportionate amount of power, and poor people a disproportionately low amount of it, yes. but the rich in the US still have to fear the poor, they still have to fear elections from time to time, their control can still slip at any moment. the US is still a working democracy, no matter how much you folks from the commie parade try to characterize it as a right-wing dystopia.






so, by your logic, one is only free if one has no rights? oO


at the end of the day, outside of an anarchistic society, freedom can only be enjoyed if fundamental rights are protected by the government. free speech, property rights, due process, and so on.
these rights are a necessary but not sufficient condition for freedom. slaves who dont enjoy these rights cannot possibly be free, hence, my initial Goethe quote is not a contradiction.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Oct 9 2019 05:03pm

or the guy who wanted to abolish the department of energy being its secretary now, and one of the staunchest opponents of the CFPB now dismantling it from the inside...

Said by Trump today about ISIS prisoners in Syria:


He said fuck you, European cucksucker. Not my words, his. I love Germany, I lived there two years while stationed there and they were great hosts. Visited a dozen of your neighbors. It sucks our Commander In Chief doesn't respect your nation or your Union.

/e reported, suspended again, etc.

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 9 2019 05:07pm

you can joke all you want. my argument did not rest on the moral integrity or the substantial competence of Trump and his administration - the argument from your side was that people outside of the 1% cannot make their voices heard in meaningful fashion against the will of the 1%. yet the trump supporters did clearly make their voices heard in 2016 by getting trump to the white house while virtually all the elites preferred the status quo candidate he was running against.


you can argue all you want about trump in the role of the hero of the working-class being a complete joke, setting the fox to keep the geese and so on and on, and you even have a point. but none of this touches the logic of my counterargument to the "plutocracy"-claim.

of course they are going to escape to europe because our dumbfuck political leaders still refuse to secure the EU's outer border after all those years. trump is totally in the right here, and I'm totally with him in his disrespect and disdain for Merkel, Macron and all those cucks who are ruining their respective countries. this Germany, Merkel's Germany... does not deserve respect.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Oct 9 2019 05:17pm

Merkel is the leader of the free world now lol. Poor lady.

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 9 2019 05:13pm

Trump is IN the .0001%..
He has a voice.
You think trump didn't have powerful backing? You think the koch's and waltons voted hillary?
Now if bernie had been elected your point would have been made.

Fact is the wealthiest candidate with the least amount of votes won, if anything you proved my point.

This post was edited by Plaguefear on Oct 9 2019 05:34pm