If I was so loaded with excess fg that I could afford to waste 20/5s on a mf sorc there wouldn't be any point in making a mf char

Well that’s where we differ. I’d take the “basically nothing” damage boost over the actual nothing tanking stats. Although in reality the difference isn’t so small. Vs. a Storm Caster in Chaos for instance, you go from doing 42% damage 47% with the extra RBF plus a bit more mastery damage on the side - that’s a boost of over 10% vs immunes in one of the most heavily farmed zones.

In comparison, with the 40 res etc., you’d go from not dying to still not dying plus time wasted summoning oak and repairing charges.







You will notice that when I first made the point about Eschutas > Hoto, I specifically said for endgame builds. My only contention is that if you do have access to stuff like a 2/20/20@ ammy and 5/20s etc, then Eschuta's outperforms Hoto - and so it's not a completely garbage item. Of course rare and magic orbs are better but those are not always available even if you can afford them.

Regarding item prices, I never recommend for people to use bugbelts etc. I only post those builds when people specifically ask "what is the best". I was under the impression that this was a theorycrafting forum.

This post was edited by draftw3dr on Jun 25 2019 12:02am

So you go from killing a storm caster in 3 hits to killing one in 3 hits?

Where do I sign up?

Well lightning damage goes from 1-X so you actually end up killing the storm caster in 2 hits 10-15% more often. It's still better than going from not dying to not dying.

This post was edited by draftw3dr on Jun 25 2019 07:40am

It sounds like you're trying to argue why cmoon is better, not eschuta

Oh I don't deny that CMooN is better than Eschutas in most situations. But Eschuta's is better than Hoto for sure.

you did not specify that its better for bigger dmg numbers, not for gameplay overall

I'll just clarify what I mean then. My position is that your best weapon choice for a lite sorc is mostly determined by your total budget for the character:

1. Very Low Budget - Spirit. (When you don't have anything else).
2. Mid Budget - Hoto. (This is used mostly for convenience since it fixes FCR and resists easily. Otherwise it isn't particularly good).
3. High Budget - CMooN (This helps you shred through immunes but it is expensive because you have to make up the FCR through other items like Griffons, 2/20 ammys etc. and the resists through the Anni, Torch and other inventory slots).
4. Very High Budget - Eschutas (This outputs more damage than CMooN vs. everything including breakable immunes when you combine it with 20/20 armor and shield specifically. It is very high budget because you need a good 2/20/20@res ammy and very high end stat items/inventory to make up for the lost tankiness.
5. Unlimited Budget - 5/5/20 < 6/6/20 Orbs.

My original post was directed at

I'm not saying that Eschuta's is always the best weapon and I'm not telling anybody to spend a huge amount to make a very high budget sorc. Hopefully that clarifies things.

thanks for the info, but we are only trying to say that it is not that good to waste 5-10k fg on casual pvm char

I don't see why it is any different from "wasting" 5-10k on a PvP character. You're speaking as if your fg has disappeared through the transaction - most high end items will retain their value or increase over time so you can simply sell them at a future point for profit. Almost all the components of a high-end sorc are easy to sell - perfect annis, torches, skillers, 08 boots, griffs, 2/20 ammys etc. It is a great investment if you have the fg available.