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#21
Apr 17 2019 08:27pm
Quote (AspenSniper @ Apr 17 2019 10:23pm)
They don’t. It’s proven over and over when there are copious amounts of freebies and work opportunities the poor refuse to take anything but more free money.


I'm not sure I understand your stance here. It seems that we agree that the removal of handouts would be good. But I'm not sure whether we agree that plentiful unskilled labor jobs would also be good.
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#22
Apr 17 2019 08:28pm
Quote (AspenSniper @ Apr 17 2019 09:23pm)
They don’t. It’s proven over and over when there are copious amounts of freebies and work opportunities the poor refuse to take anything but more free money.


For some, only suffering can be a valid teacher
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#23
Apr 17 2019 08:30pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Apr 17 2019 09:27pm)
I'm not sure I understand your stance here. It seems that we agree that the removal of handouts would be good. But I'm not sure whether we agree that plentiful unskilled labor jobs would also be good.



I mean that’s fine but frankly many of those jobs are being automated. If we are to give free money it should be a UBI paid to everyone equally. Not welfare specifically given to the poor.
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#24
Apr 17 2019 08:30pm
Quote (Jupe @ Apr 17 2019 08:29am)
I'm gonna say it


despite
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#25
Apr 18 2019 01:28am
Quote (Kayeto @ Apr 17 2019 08:20pm)
The poor don't need to be given money. They need to be given employment opportunity i.e. the ability to earn money.

Immigrants came to America with no money, not even speaking the language. What was waiting for them? Factory jobs. Jobs that let them raise a family and send their kids to school so that their kids could have a chance to earn an even better life for themselves and their kids.

You don't change people by giving them handouts. You change people by giving them a chance to change themselves. It won't work for everyone (obviously) but over time, your culture improves.



Employment is already given freely by the market. There’s millions of job listings outstanding with no one to fill them.
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#26
Apr 18 2019 01:50am
Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 18 2019 03:28am)
Employment is already given freely by the market. There’s millions of job listings outstanding with no one to fill them.


read the middle line of my post that you quoted

There was a time in this country that an unskilled laborer could go get a factory/mill job that he could use to support a family on a single income. That's the world that my grandparents found when they hit 18.

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#27
Apr 18 2019 02:21am
Quote (Kayeto @ Apr 18 2019 01:50am)
read the middle line of my post that you quoted

There was a time in this country that an unskilled laborer could go get a factory/mill job that he could use to support a family on a single income. That's the world that my grandparents found when they hit 18.



Yet the undertone is that the middle line does not currently exist, hence my post.
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#28
Apr 18 2019 02:30am
Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 18 2019 07:21pm)
Yet the undertone is that the middle line does not currently exist, hence my post.


It doesn't.
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#29
Apr 18 2019 02:30am
Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 18 2019 04:21am)
Yet the undertone is that the middle line does not currently exist, hence my post.


Agreed. Why is why:

Quote (FGdumpster @ Apr 18 2019 03:28am)
Employment is already given freely by the market. There’s millions of job listings outstanding with no one to fill them.


is only semantically true. It isn't true in a practical sense. There isn't enough employment out there to satisfy the needs of the country.

The quantity/quality of employment opportunities that poor people need in order to end the cycle of poverty doesn't actually exist. The only viable solution is to address it's lack of existence by restoring it.

This post was edited by Kayeto on Apr 18 2019 02:31am
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#30
Apr 18 2019 03:10am
Quote (AspenSniper @ Apr 17 2019 09:30pm)
I mean that’s fine but frankly many of those jobs are being automated. If we are to give free money it should be a UBI paid to everyone equally. Not welfare specifically given to the poor.


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