Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 21 2019 01:30am)

I don't know if anyone remembers but I've been shilling the same gun control idea for years where the government would set up a voluntarily, non-coercive, tax-subsidized gun chip system that would allow customizable chips on guns ranging from real-time tracking to simple identification, whether passive or active, GPS or NFIC, whatever. The main idea being it would be aimed at giving gun owners a positive argument of extra functionality and safety instead of restricting their rights. A responsible gun owner might want a chip on their gun to alert them immediately if it leaves their house, or put a school on lockdown if their kid takes it there, or send an automated 911 signal when shooting someone in self-defense, or let police identify who a 'good guy with a gun is'. Or just wave a wand over a stolen gun to see who it belongs to. It seemed to me like an idea that might actually get somewhere, as long as it was narrowly written to not only be an opt-in voluntarily system instead of a requirement, but also to have explicit protections saying non-participation cannot be used as a coercive measure to restrict rights, ie you can't say "only gun-chip guns allowed in these buildings".

well

today New Zealand announced its plans to seize 1.2 million guns owned by private citizens after redefining what a "military style semi automatic" is (hey at least its a more sensible term than 'assault weapon'). They say they're going to have a grace period of buybacks when guns can be turned over, but then they'll start using the police and maybe even military to grab guns from kiwis. And since you needed a class A license to own a gun and register it with the government, they know where all the gun owners live and what guns they have. Soon they'll be using those lists to conduct raids.

I think its time for me to admit my idea wouldn't work. Can citizens actually trust a government not to slide down a slippery slope? New Zealand had no second amendment, and the 1993 law let an arbitrary 'order of council' simply wave a wand and redefine what types of guns are banned. I think that even the rosiest scenario of having gun registrations and identification solely at a voluntary level just can't hold up to the argument of what would happen when a future government uses that list to seize the guns. How can gun owners watch what's going on in New Zealand and turn around and say hey, a registry is a good idea, it will never be used by gungrabbers.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Mar 21 2019 10:33am)

Adams made very clear that only a moral and religious people can maintain the constitution properly. Others will simply give up their freedom in exchange for convenience.

Quote (balrog66 @ Mar 21 2019 05:41am)

Considering you've already lost a few freedoms (Patriot Act and related policies), I think Americans already chose convenience.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 21 2019 12:55am)

Large scale seizure of guns in the US would carry a huge risk of large scale violent escalation. It would be a big step towards a civil-war-like situation. Apparently, the NZ government doesnt have to fear a similar escalation.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Mar 21 2019 05:33am)

Others will simply give up their freedom in exchange for convenience.

Quote

The Former Version
“Almighty God, Humbly acknowledging our need for Thy guidance in all things, and laying aside all private and personal interests, we beseech Thee to grant that we may conduct the affairs of this House and of our country to the glory of Thy Holy Name, the maintenance of true religion and justice, the honour of the Queen, and the public welfare, peace and tranquillity of New Zealand, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”

The New Version (in English and also in Te Reo)
“Almighty God, We give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on New Zealand. Laying aside all personal interests, we pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the public welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.”

Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 21 2019 07:43pm)

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12215110

in case you guys thought their PM wearing a hijab would be the high water mark, big fat NOPE
1:30 PM they will be broadcasting an islamic call to prayer over the national radio, followed by 2 minutes of silence. It will include the Shahada, 'There is no god but Allah. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.'

and just last october before any of this attack stuff, they removed references to Jesus from their parliamentary prayer
http://www.prayeratparliament.org.nz/default.asp?iID=GEMIJM&item=GFMIIM


So within the span of just 5 months, New Zealand went from holding christian prayers in parliament to broadcasting the Shahada to everyone's house.

Quote (HeLiCaL @ Mar 22 2019 12:05pm)