when the wolf catcher shows up and looks and says yup thats a wolf and then goes home, the townspeople are stumped

Nothing inherently wrong with judging people who engage in incest either.

Depends what you mean by 'judging'. It would be wrong to judge them as immoral purely based on the fact that they engaged in an incestuous sexual relationship... I mean unless you have some argument I haven't thought of that makes it wrong from a utilitarian perspective.

I'm being facetious. Right and wrong are subjective and morals can't be objective. So just criticizing your statement of nothing inherently wrong has no real basis to mean anything.

This post was edited by sir_lance_bb on Apr 18 2019 06:50am

Which is why I specified from a utilitarian standpoint. Utilitarianism is the only moral system with a foundation in objective truth. We suffer.

how is it an objective truth that we suffer?

It is an objective truth that I suffer. Due to hard solipsism I can't say that it is true that others do.

Descartes buddy. I think therefore I am. In this Descartes shows us how we can know the truth of our own existence - through the self evident truth that we experience things. Suffering is merely our perception of those experiences as being negative ones. Thus it is self evidently true to each of us that we experience things and regard those experiences as positive, negative or somewhere in between.

This post was edited by TransTankie on Apr 19 2019 12:51am

Your perception of your experiences cannot be quantified. Morals draw lines in the sand no matter what they are based on. Morals are human judgement on actions we do.

Objective by it very nature implies it exists outside of human experience or perception. Moral values and beliefs don't exist outside human's morals and perception.

The only thing that isn't subjective with human perception and existence is when we perceive objective things like the physical world and things like math. Those things just are , the former is the physical world and the latter is something we created to describe/measure the physical world so it has to be objective.

I think therefore I am is mostly a thought experiment to prove that within your own experience , that the only thing you can be sure of for certain is that you yourself do exist. Drawing anymore conclusion from it has no real value on the merit of subjective vs objective.

This post was edited by sir_lance_bb on Apr 19 2019 01:02am

i think therefore i am doesn't cover suffering being an objective truth, it really doesn't even cover you are the one thinking

Mmm. We have to reason out from there.
I like to just simply reduce it down to 'I experience'. 'I' is the entity that experiences and perceives those experiences. It self evidently true that we regard those experiences as positive or negative and therefore suffering is a self evident truth as it is the resultant experience of an entity regarding an experience as negative..