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Mar 6 2019 08:15pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 7 Mar 2019 03:07)
Is it me or is antisemitism nearly extinct on the mainstream right - both domestically and abroad, yet it seems to be thriving and lurking on the left not only in the US, but places like UK, France & others?


Perhaps a lot of the antisemitism from the right was generational, and as that generation dies off, so does the typical antisemitism we've seen from the right?

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Mar 6 2019 08:16pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Mar 6 2019 07:12pm)
I wouldn't say it's extinct on the right. However, the far left is where you'll find strong opposition to Israel with respect to its treatment of Palestinians, and sometimes this includes antisemitism, and other times criticism of Israel is unfairly conflated with antisemitism.


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Mar 6 2019 08:16pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Mar 6 2019 06:04pm)
The actual divide in the democratic party is not based on policy, it's based on ideology.


Can you elaborate on this more? I find policy and ideology to be closely linked, since more often than not policy is ideology manifested.
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Mar 6 2019 08:20pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ 7 Mar 2019 03:12)
I wouldn't say it's extinct on the right. However, the far left is where you'll find strong opposition to Israel with respect to its treatment of Palestinians, and sometimes this includes antisemitism, and other times criticism of Israel is unfairly conflated with antisemitism.


the thing is that this leftist criticism of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is very often one-sided, biased, sensational, unfair. the treatment of the palestinian question which those on the left envision would in many cases lead to the destruction of the state of israel within a couple of years.

often times, valid criticism of the status quo is indeed conflated with proposals which effectively deny Israel the right to exist.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 6 2019 08:20pm
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Mar 6 2019 08:26pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Mar 6 2019 07:16pm)
Can you elaborate on this more? I find policy and ideology to be closely linked, since more often than not policy is ideology manifested.


If your stance is based on policy we can have a discussion, and come to a compromise that we'll both be unhappy about, but everyone will benefit from.

If your stance is based on ideology, either you get your way or nothing happens, and if nothing happens, then it's time to burn shit down, attack innocent people, and riot.

Clear enough?
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Mar 6 2019 08:26pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 6 2019 07:20pm)
the thing is that this leftist criticism of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is very often one-sided, biased, sensational, unfair. the treatment of the palestinian question which those on the left envision would in many cases lead to the destruction of the state of israel within a couple of years.

often times, valid criticism of the status quo is indeed conflated with proposals which effectively deny Israel the right to exist.


Palestinians & Arabs living in Israel have higher life expectancies, lower infant mortalities, higher incomes than pretty much every other Muslim country that surrounds them.

I find it mind-boggling how leftists have amnesia of the numerous wars of aggression against Israel in the last 60-70 years by Muslim countries literally looking to exterminate them yet Israel is the great evil of your our day?
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Mar 6 2019 08:27pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Mar 6 2019 06:26pm)
If your stance is based on policy we can have a discussion, and come to a compromise that we'll both be unhappy about, but everyone will benefit from.

If your stance is based on ideology, either you get your way or nothing happens, and if nothing happens, then it's time to burn shit down, attack innocent people, and riot.

Clear enough?


That sounds more like the difference of pragmatism v. ideology, not policy.
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Mar 6 2019 08:30pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 6 2019 06:20pm)
the thing is that this leftist criticism of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is very often one-sided, biased, sensational, unfair. the treatment of the palestinian question which those on the left envision would in many cases lead to the destruction of the state of israel within a couple of years.

often times, valid criticism of the status quo is indeed conflated with proposals which effectively deny Israel the right to exist.


From my experience in leftist spaces, moderate Democrats seem to be pro-Israel, and far-left progressives are pro-Palestine. This description doesn't fit everyone, of course, and I mean it merely as a general trend/observation.
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Mar 6 2019 08:31pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 6 2019 07:26pm)
Palestinians & Arabs living in Israel have higher life expectancies, lower infant mortalities, higher incomes than pretty much every other Muslim country that surrounds them.

I find it mind-boggling how leftists have amnesia of the numerous wars of aggression against Israel in the last 60-70 years by Muslim countries literally looking to exterminate them yet Israel is the great evil of your our day?


or people are just criticizing treatment of other life
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Mar 6 2019 08:47pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Mar 6 2019 07:27pm)
That sounds more like the difference of pragmatism v. ideology, not policy.


*sigh*

I'm getting too old to argue with you youngfolk.

There is principle, and there is ideology. The right is riddled with principle, and some of it is very wrong. Though, oddly, not a lot. That's a severe minority, and doesn't matter in the first place, because it doesn't shape policy. The left is riddled with ideology, a lot of which is very wrong. And this is a major fucking problem, because people of these ideologic mindsets want to CREATE laws that are going to dictate what I do in my own personal life.

AOC is terrifying. I'm not going to lie. Her popularilty and what she represents. But don't claim that being pragmatic vs idealistic is the same as working on a "principled policy" guideline vs an "ideology guideline".

My principles do not change, ever, unless you can point to one and show me how it's wrong. I based EVERYTHING IN MY LIFE on my principles. And often I don't live up to those principles. But they are the standards by which I set my life.

Ideology never stays the same. There is no set standard.

Now, do you see the issue here?
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