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Feb 13 2019 10:07am
the graph is not wrong, it shows the diminishing returns of mf (effective mf in function of mf)
it is however pretty much useless on its own, because it doesn't show what effective mf actually does
E: and it's misleading, people who see this graph will assume more mf equals higher chance of rare for example


This post was edited by lilith0 on Feb 13 2019 10:12am
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Feb 13 2019 03:07pm
Okay. I’ll ask a more specific question:

Using a lvl 93 character,

Clearing chaos, Diablo and Baal runs,

What’s the optimal mf,

For rare items?
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Feb 13 2019 06:17pm
Quote (Recividistic @ Feb 13 2019 10:07pm)
Okay. I’ll ask a more specific question:

Using a lvl 93 character,

Clearing chaos, Diablo and Baal runs,

What’s the optimal mf,

For rare items?


As said (and explained) above, I'd say between 200 and 250%.

This is, however, assuming that your killing speed is already maxed (ie : we're only talking about small charms with 20life vs 7mf, or Aldur boots vs War Traveler...)

Quote (ChilledPoncho @ Feb 13 2019 04:48pm)
(...)

If calcChanceForMagic(mf)
drop blue
else if ...

(...)


If anyone wants a clear evidence that this famous graph only shows a (little) part of the problem, then you may :
1) ask yourself what "effective MF" means ? (the Y-axis label)
2) ask yourself what would mean having more than 100% of droping a blue item (since that graph clearly shows a linear progression towards blue items).
3) make a SP char with 100K mf, and just play around some minutes and see the quality of drops.

This graph (which is totally correct) only explains 1 step out of 4 or 5 of the items generation.

However, what you said in the quoted part is wrong : unique quality is checked first, then set, then rare, then magic, then superior, then normal, then (default setting) cracked.
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Feb 14 2019 07:09am
Simple explanation for people who aren't so good at statistics:

The graph is correct, but it only shows the "effectiveness" of increasing your magic find stat - more specifically, how diminishing returns kicks in, and how stacking higher MF% has a smaller effect on higher rarities (You can see that the curves for unique items tapers off very early). The graph does not show the ACTUAL RATIO of drops you get in game. So after looking at this graph, you still have no idea how many uniques vs. sets. vs. rares etc. will drop.

If you want to find the optimal MF% of a rare item, there are two main considerations.

1. The more MF% you have, the more likely an item will spawn at Rare.
2. The more MF% you have, the more likely an item will spawn at Unique or Set (which will prevent it from being rare).

As your MF% increases, the probability of both (1) and (2) increase as well. Initially, your chance of getting a rare will go up, but eventually you reach a tipping point where you're getting so many uniques and sets that you start seeing less rares. The OP is basically asking what that tipping point is. Since Boss Monsters have higher drop rates, that percentage is around the 200% mark whereas for regular monsters, the tipping point is in that 5-600% range.
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Feb 14 2019 06:39pm
Quote (draftw3dr @ 14 Feb 2019 15:09)
Simple explanation for people who aren't so good at statistics:

The graph is correct, but it only shows the "effectiveness" of increasing your magic find stat - more specifically, how diminishing returns kicks in, and how stacking higher MF% has a smaller effect on higher rarities (You can see that the curves for unique items tapers off very early). The graph does not show the ACTUAL RATIO of drops you get in game. So after looking at this graph, you still have no idea how many uniques vs. sets. vs. rares etc. will drop.

If you want to find the optimal MF% of a rare item, there are two main considerations.

1. The more MF% you have, the more likely an item will spawn at Rare.
2. The more MF% you have, the more likely an item will spawn at Unique or Set (which will prevent it from being rare).

As your MF% increases, the probability of both (1) and (2) increase as well. Initially, your chance of getting a rare will go up, but eventually you reach a tipping point where you're getting so many uniques and sets that you start seeing less rares. The OP is basically asking what that tipping point is. Since Boss Monsters have higher drop rates, that percentage is around the 200% mark whereas for regular monsters, the tipping point is in that 5-600% range.


What i tried to say, but my english didnt let me :lol: thanks
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Feb 14 2019 06:53pm
Quote (Hell_of_Dammed @ Feb 14 2019 08:39pm)
What i tried to say, but my english didnt let me :lol: thanks



Thx
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Feb 16 2019 09:00pm
Quote (feanur @ Feb 14 2019 08:17am)

This graph (which is totally correct) ...


But then this part is clearly wrong:

Quote (feanur @ Feb 14 2019 08:17am)

ask yourself what would mean having more than 100% of droping a blue item (since that graph clearly shows a linear progression towards blue items).


The blue thing has to be wrong cuz if it were the case you won't see plains at all, but you know it ain't the case. Most people get fooled by this. I really don't know why.
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Feb 16 2019 09:09pm
Quote (fairysquad @ Feb 17 2019 02:00pm)
But then this part is clearly wrong:



The blue thing has to be wrong cuz if it were the case you won't see plains at all, but you know it ain't the case. Most people get fooled by this. I really don't know why.


Sorry mate but you clearly don't understand the graph. It is comparing actual MF to effective MF. It doesn't even mention actual drop rates. To make the calculation - you need to know the base drop rate of the item and multiply through by your MF.

For example: Let's say you have an impossibly high MF% - 2000% increased chance of getting magic items. (20x)

If a monster has a 1% chance to drop a magic item, you multiply by 20 and now that monster has a 20% chance to drop a magic item. I don't see how you came to the conclusion that you would never get plain white items.
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Feb 17 2019 03:58am
Quote (draftw3dr @ Feb 17 2019 11:09am)
Sorry mate but you clearly don't understand the graph. It is comparing actual MF to effective MF. It doesn't even mention actual drop rates. To make the calculation - you need to know the base drop rate of the item and multiply through by your MF.

For example: Let's say you have an impossibly high MF% - 2000% increased chance of getting magic items. (20x)

If a monster has a 1% chance to drop a magic item, you multiply by 20 and now that monster has a 20% chance to drop a magic item. I don't see how you came to the conclusion that you would never get plain white items.


Was referring to how people interpreted it. Just sayin it's funny how people take it to mean a percentage. It's like some delusion that won't go away!
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