d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Diablo II > Diablo 2 Discussion > Strategy & Guides > Best Mf For Rares > Thx
Prev123Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 9,127
Joined: Sep 18 2018
Gold: Locked
Trader: Scammer
Feb 12 2019 09:34am
Quote (feanur @ Feb 12 2019 11:30am)
Yes I'm sure.

The number of increasing failed uniques (tri-durability rares) is much less important than the number of increasing sets (failed or not : useless for that concern).

For 2 reasons :
- very few unique drops turn into failed uniques, because almost all items have a unique version (contrary to set items), hence you would need to drop twice the same unique in the same game to produce a failed one.
- odds of unique drop, in the first place, increase much less than the odds of set drop, as your total % mf increases. This is due to an alteration of that total %, with different asymptotic limits for uniques or for sets.

And no, the odds of rare drops don't always increase with your total % mf. Unique or set drops may replace rare drop with a higher probability. Remember the order of quality setting : first unique, then set, then rare, then ...


so is 250 better than 240? how about 260... Whats the optimal mf for rares, in your opinion?
Member
Posts: 13,181
Joined: Dec 14 2005
Gold: 500.00
Feb 12 2019 10:23am
Quote (feanur @ 12 Feb 2019 17:30)
Yes I'm sure.

The number of increasing failed uniques (tri-durability rares) is much less important than the number of increasing sets (failed or not : useless for that concern).

For 2 reasons :
- very few unique drops turn into failed uniques, because almost all items have a unique version (contrary to set items), hence you would need to drop twice the same unique in the same game to produce a failed one.
- odds of unique drop, in the first place, increase much less than the odds of set drop, as your total % mf increases. This is due to an alteration of that total %, with different asymptotic limits for uniques or for sets.

And no, the odds of rare drops don't always increase with your total % mf. Unique or set drops may replace rare drop with a higher probability. Remember the order of quality setting : first unique, then set, then rare, then ...


Wouldnt the increase magic->rare be higher than the loss rare->set/uniq? My calculator shows higher chance for rare with more mf as far as i remember
Member
Posts: 16,662
Joined: Nov 24 2007
Gold: 15,245.00
Trader: Trusted
Feb 12 2019 08:00pm
Quote (Recividistic @ Feb 12 2019 04:34pm)
so is 250 better than 240? how about 260... Whats the optimal mf for rares, in your opinion?


Somewhere between 200 and 250%. Hard to say exactly, it depends on where you farm.

For example for Hell Baal (no quest drop) :
equiped %mf / chance for a drop of being rare (if available of course), averaged between Qlvl 1 and Qlvl 86 items, excluding class specific items :
0 mf / 26.6%
50 mf / 33.5%
100 mf / 37.3%
150 mf / 39.0% (highest chance around 165 mf)
200 mf / 38.7%
250 mf / 37.5%
300 mf / 36.5%

Same for a regular Mlvl 85 monster :
0 mf / 1.28%
100 mf / 2.36%
200 mf / 3.14%
300 mf / 3.56%
400 mf / 3.77%
500 mf / 3.85%
600 mf to 1300 mf / ~ 3.88% (highest seems at 590%)
1400 mf / 3.87%

And last for a Mlvl 88 unique monster :
0 mf / 5.8%
50 mf / 8.2%
100 mf / 10.3%
150 mf / 12.0%
200 mf / 13.3%
250 mf / 14.2%
300 mf / 14.8%
350 mf / 15.2%
400 mf / 15.5%
450 mf / 15.6%
500 mf / 15.7%
550 mf to 900 mf / ~15.8% (highest chance around 550 mf)
950 mf / 15.7%

For class specific items, the figures are lower : those items have an internal bonus to quality when droped.

Considering farming Baal is usually profitable, that's why I suggest somewhere between 200 and 250% :
odds at Baal already decrease, but you can profit some other drops on the way.

Quote (Hell_of_Dammed @ Feb 12 2019 05:23pm)
Wouldnt the increase magic->rare be higher than the loss rare->set/uniq? My calculator shows higher chance for rare with more mf as far as i remember


Well, I don't know for your calculator.
My work is based on :
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?392254-Item-Generation-Tutorial-for-Patch-1-11-%28v1-0%29

As explained, there are caps occuring for different qualities.
I tried a summary here :
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=60107860&f=161

Member
Posts: 5,996
Joined: Feb 1 2017
Gold: 22,612.50
Feb 12 2019 08:07pm
Quote (feanur @ Feb 13 2019 01:00pm)
Somewhere between 200 and 250%. Hard to say exactly, it depends on where you farm.

For example for Hell Baal (no quest drop) :
equiped %mf / chance for a drop of being rare (if available of course), averaged between Qlvl 1 and Qlvl 86 items, excluding class specific items :
0 mf / 26.6%
50 mf / 33.5%
100 mf / 37.3%
150 mf / 39.0% (highest chance around 165 mf)
200 mf / 38.7%
250 mf / 37.5%
300 mf / 36.5%

Same for a regular Mlvl 85 monster :
0 mf / 1.28%
100 mf / 2.36%
200 mf / 3.14%
300 mf / 3.56%
400 mf / 3.77%
500 mf / 3.85%
600 mf to 1300 mf / ~ 3.88% (highest seems at 590%)
1400 mf / 3.87%

And last for a Mlvl 88 unique monster :
0 mf / 5.8%
50 mf / 8.2%
100 mf / 10.3%
150 mf / 12.0%
200 mf / 13.3%
250 mf / 14.2%
300 mf / 14.8%
350 mf / 15.2%
400 mf / 15.5%
450 mf / 15.6%
500 mf / 15.7%
550 mf to 900 mf / ~15.8% (highest chance around 550 mf)
950 mf / 15.7%

For class specific items, the figures are lower : those items have an internal bonus to quality when droped.

Considering farming Baal is usually profitable, that's why I suggest somewhere between 200 and 250% :
odds at Baal already decrease, but you can profit some other drops on the way.



Well, I don't know for your calculator.
My work is based on :
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?392254-Item-Generation-Tutorial-for-Patch-1-11-(v1-0)

As explained, there are caps occuring for different qualities.
I tried a summary here :
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=60107860&f=161


Yeah this is pretty much what I had in mind although I'll admit I never crunched the numbers.
I knew you wanted to get to a pretty ridiculously high MF figure in the 5-600's but I was imagining stuff like Pit, Cows and Chaos etc. rather than Telebaals :)
Member
Posts: 13,181
Joined: Dec 14 2005
Gold: 500.00
Feb 13 2019 04:46am
Quote (feanur @ 13 Feb 2019 04:00)
Somewhere between 200 and 250%. Hard to say exactly, it depends on where you farm.

For example for Hell Baal (no quest drop) :
equiped %mf / chance for a drop of being rare (if available of course), averaged between Qlvl 1 and Qlvl 86 items, excluding class specific items :
0 mf / 26.6%
50 mf / 33.5%
100 mf / 37.3%
150 mf / 39.0% (highest chance around 165 mf)
200 mf / 38.7%
250 mf / 37.5%
300 mf / 36.5%

Same for a regular Mlvl 85 monster :
0 mf / 1.28%
100 mf / 2.36%
200 mf / 3.14%
300 mf / 3.56%
400 mf / 3.77%
500 mf / 3.85%
600 mf to 1300 mf / ~ 3.88% (highest seems at 590%)
1400 mf / 3.87%

And last for a Mlvl 88 unique monster :
0 mf / 5.8%
50 mf / 8.2%
100 mf / 10.3%
150 mf / 12.0%
200 mf / 13.3%
250 mf / 14.2%
300 mf / 14.8%
350 mf / 15.2%
400 mf / 15.5%
450 mf / 15.6%
500 mf / 15.7%
550 mf to 900 mf / ~15.8% (highest chance around 550 mf)
950 mf / 15.7%

For class specific items, the figures are lower : those items have an internal bonus to quality when droped.

Considering farming Baal is usually profitable, that's why I suggest somewhere between 200 and 250% :
odds at Baal already decrease, but you can profit some other drops on the way.



Well, I don't know for your calculator.
My work is based on :
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?392254-Item-Generation-Tutorial-for-Patch-1-11-(v1-0)

As explained, there are caps occuring for different qualities.
I tried a summary here :
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=60107860&f=161


I used the one on the german site yesterday and for randomly chosen items (just 4 or 5) that also have set/unique parts, mf between 300-350% showed highest chances for rares on hell meph.

Probably not a big sample size, but the numbers are close. 200-300 was just minimal less...

So my conclusion:
Mf for rares on bossfarming 150-350 depending on boss
Mf for rares on trashfarming 500+
Member
Posts: 6,104
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 3,932.00
Feb 13 2019 06:14am
Member
Posts: 13,181
Joined: Dec 14 2005
Gold: 500.00
Feb 13 2019 08:34am
Quote (ChilledPoncho @ 13 Feb 2019 14:14)


This graph doesnt show anything related to actual problem. Also its wrong because its not considering the different base chance of magic/rare/set/... and the influence of the roll order, nor which mob you kill (act boss cannot drop white).

This graph pretty much only shows that mf for uniques is not linear.(unique rolls first)
It does not explain why you have more chance for a rare item at 300mf than you have with 1000mf (on an act boss e.g.)

As feanur showed above rare drop chance gets lower at a certain point, which is correct, but your graph shows something different. The graph also does not show that at some point you have only magic or higher drops and more mf is useless for magic items..

So much wrong, so much informations missing, but all that clueless people always quote that graph, sad.

This post was edited by Hell_of_Dammed on Feb 13 2019 08:36am
Member
Posts: 6,104
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 3,932.00
Feb 13 2019 08:57am
Quote (Hell_of_Dammed @ 13 Feb 2019 15:34)
This graph doesnt show anything related to actual problem. Also its wrong because its not considering the different base chance of magic/rare/set/... and the influence of the roll order, nor which mob you kill (act boss cannot drop white).

This graph pretty much only shows that mf for uniques is not linear.(unique rolls first)
It does not explain why you have more chance for a rare item at 300mf than you have with 1000mf (on an act boss e.g.)

As feanur showed above rare drop chance gets lower at a certain point, which is correct, but your graph shows something different. The graph also does not show that at some point you have only magic or higher drops and more mf is useless for magic items..

So much wrong, so much informations missing, but all that clueless people always quote that graph, sad.


I just wanted to add the graph cuz the graph is right. If u cant read graphs not my problem.
Member
Posts: 13,181
Joined: Dec 14 2005
Gold: 500.00
Feb 13 2019 09:18am
Quote (ChilledPoncho @ 13 Feb 2019 16:57)
I just wanted to add the graph cuz the graph is right. If u cant read graphs not my problem.


Then tell me in which case this graph is true..it cant be true for bosses e.g. since they drop magic all the time.

Seems as you can watch but cant interpret it.

This post was edited by Hell_of_Dammed on Feb 13 2019 09:18am
Member
Posts: 6,104
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 3,932.00
Feb 13 2019 09:48am
Quote (Hell_of_Dammed @ 13 Feb 2019 16:18)
Then tell me in which case this graph is true..it cant be true for bosses e.g. since they drop magic all the time.

Seems as you can watch but cant interpret it.


this is not how mf works. If bosses or normal mobs or champs or whatever.
Mf is programmed with some if else easy stuff and some simple calculation to get diminishing returns, moblvl and mf cap.

On bosses the behavoir is the same as on regular mobs, its just cut on some parts.

If calcChanceForMagic(mf)
drop blue
else if ...

I know how mf works and I know how diminishing return works. The graph is right and is good for an easy view what is worth and what isnt worth.
If u dont like the graph then just ignore it. Easy. Im out
Go Back To Strategy & Guides Topic List
Prev123Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll