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Dec 3 2018 12:02pm
Hi community,

let us discuss this for the SC's best item list rating here.

my suggestion:

Robe:
1 Vitality = 0.10 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.90 EE

Padded Robe:
1 Vitality = 0.25 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.75 EE

Leather:
1 Vitality = 0.5 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.5 EE

Scale:
1 Vitality = 0.5 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.5 EE

Chain mail:
1 Vitality = 0.75 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.25 EE

Plate mail:
1 Vitality = 0.90 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.10 EE
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Dec 3 2018 12:06pm
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Posts: 23,719
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Dec 3 2018 12:13pm
Quote (PhiRip @ 3 Dec 2018 19:06)


yes these are the old rating for the old list

we should discuss if this still is valid :)
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Dec 3 2018 12:33pm
Quote (PhiRip @ Dec 3 2018 08:06am)


I think that honestly needs a revamp, but I like the values given for plate and chain. Actually, I believe that the values for leather and scale need tweaking, and of course padded should be added. There is really no way that vit is more useful on a scale and int is more useful on a leather. I'm sure those ratios were defined to allow players to gain as much total numerical defense as possible, but that isn't actually what's important. Also, I think it falls short because it rounds to the nearest 0.25, which isn't the same for daggers and clubs, so I don't see why they have to be rounded this way for armors either. Thanks for the foundation to build on!

Quote (Meridius @ Dec 3 2018 08:02am)
Hi community,

let us discuss this for the SC's best item list rating here.

my suggestion:

Robe:
1 Vitality = 0.10 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.90 EE

Padded Robe:
1 Vitality = 0.25 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.75 EE

Leather:
1 Vitality = 0.5 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.5 EE

Scale:
1 Vitality = 0.5 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.5 EE

Chain mail:
1 Vitality = 0.75 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.25 EE

Plate mail:
1 Vitality = 0.90 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.10 EE


Meridius, IMO this is a very logical way to do it and I think it's close for most of them. I understand why you want it to be = 1 every time, and now that I'm thinking about it... it should of course be = to 1 in each case!

This is my opinion below. (I think the numbers would have to be cleaned up, even if people agreed on my ratings, but if I rounded beforehand you couldn't really see what I'm trying to change I guess...)

I'm sure some people will disagree, so let's talk about it :)

BWConformity's general idea of vit/int value for ee armors...
Robe:
Doesn't really matter, no amount of anything will be making this a Best Item in the tanking category

Padded Robe:
1 Vitality = 0.8 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.2 EE

Leather:
1 Vitality = 0.75 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.25 EE

Scale:
1 Vitality = 0.7 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.3 EE

Chain mail:
1 Vitality = 0.8 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.2 EE

Plate mail:
1 Vitality = 0.9 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.1 EE
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Dec 3 2018 12:35pm
Quote (BWConformity @ Dec 3 2018 01:33pm)
I think that honestly needs a revamp, but I like the values given for plate and chain. Actually, I believe that the values for leather and scale need tweaking, and of course padded should be added. There is really no way that vit is more useful on a scale and int is more useful on a leather. I'm sure those ratios were defined to allow players to gain as much total numerical defense as possible, but that isn't actually what's important. Also, I think it falls short because it rounds to the nearest 0.25, which isn't the same for daggers and clubs, so I don't see why they have to be rounded this way for armors either. Thanks for the foundation to build on!



Meridius, IMO this is a very logical way to do it and I think it's close for most of them. I understand why you want it to be = 1 every time, and now that I'm thinking about it... it should of course be = to 1 in each case!

This is my opinion below. (I think the numbers would have to be cleaned up, even if people agreed on my ratings, but if I rounded beforehand you couldn't really see what I'm trying to change I guess...)

I'm sure some people will disagree, so let's talk about it :)

BWConformity's general idea of vit/int value for ee armors...
Robe:
Doesn't really matter, no amount of anything will be making this a Best Item in the tanking category

Padded Robe:
1 Vitality = 0.8 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.2 EE

Leather:
1 Vitality = 0.75 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.25 EE

Scale:
1 Vitality = 0.7 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.3 EE

Chain mail:
1 Vitality = 0.8 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.2 EE

Plate mail:
1 Vitality = 0.9 EE, 1 Intelligence = 0.1 EE


Didn't express my opinion on the numbers. Just provided numbers previously used.
I would have stated this is how I think it should be if that were the case. I'm just providing necessary info where needed or asked.
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Dec 3 2018 01:18pm
Nothing has changed with any of the previous governing factors for the items. all the defense stats for the armors are the same, as well as the int for charms. mastery is even easier now because we have a set value. so whats listed right now in the list for armors needs to be corrected.

also it's easier for everyone to have all the info listed vertically. it's hard to read and see on devices going right to left. the original style is best here as it listed the most relevant stat first and then mods out to the right. it allowed for a more condensed list. you can still do that but just have two lines per item with the link listed below the item. this gets rid of all the wasted space because one godly item listed then moves the whole space down for the entire row.

you can literally add one column between the item and the owner to add the link also. makes it very compact.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R3ltnkcbyUg0pl3eTeH3pYogsrhXARK4kqD3Yyp85ag/edit?hl=enUS&hl=enUS&hl=enUS&type=view&gid=0&f=false&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250#gid=0

This post was edited by PowerTripped on Dec 3 2018 01:21pm
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Dec 3 2018 01:45pm
leather/scale might be more a ratio like 0.45 / 0.55

to each other

adapting the same ratios we know from weapons might actually not be too bad

This post was edited by Meridius on Dec 3 2018 01:46pm
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Gold: 181,779.76
Dec 3 2018 01:46pm
I just tried it out and it appears that 21 vita adds roughly 31% ee worth of additional phys def to my 30 scale.

Stats unequipped:
Rare coral scale armor
Level Req: 30
Physical Defense: 37 to 150
Magical Defense: 39 to 118

+140% Enhanced Effect
+21 Vitality

Stats equipped:
Rare coral scale armor
Level Req: 30
Physical Defense: 42 to 168
Magical Defense: 39 to 118

+140% Enhanced Effect
+21 Vitality

Stats white 30 scale:
coral scale armor Physical Defense: 15 to 62, Magical Defense: 16 to 49
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Gold: 15,282.74
Dec 3 2018 03:03pm
Quote (Meridius @ Dec 3 2018 09:45am)
leather/scale might be more a ratio like 0.45 / 0.55

to each other

adapting the same ratios we know from weapons might actually not be too bad


Yeah that makes some sense for sure. The main issue I have with generating a useful ratio is that I feel like I need to know what the intended purpose is... I feel like in general ee armors are more importantly used for solo / explore than for whistle-tanking... When soloing you stat some amount of vit, usually no int, but most damage taken is physical anyway, so a ratio of something like what I suggested seemed appropriate...

However, if we're talking mirror maze tanking, then we should expect the player to stat more or less pure vit, and then vit on the armor itself becomes far less useful than ee (and actually int becomes increasingly important, especially on scale, but also leather). I think there will always be a problem with statted vit vs low statted vit (just like we have when we're looking at int), but we can fix that... the harder issue to fix is to rate the stats when thinking about utility for both solo / general explore and mirror maze, since vit > int for solo / explore but int > vit for mirror maze when thinking about tanking with scale/leather as an example.

Quote (RabbitRoyal @ Dec 3 2018 09:46am)
I just tried it out and it appears that 21 vita adds roughly 31% ee worth of additional phys def to my 30 scale.

Stats unequipped:
Rare coral scale armor
Level Req: 30
Physical Defense: 37 to 150
Magical Defense: 39 to 118

+140% Enhanced Effect
+21 Vitality

Stats equipped:
Rare coral scale armor
Level Req: 30
Physical Defense: 42 to 168
Magical Defense: 39 to 118

+140% Enhanced Effect
+21 Vitality

Stats white 30 scale:
coral scale armor Physical Defense: 15 to 62, Magical Defense: 16 to 49


It's not uncommon to see this much benefit from such an armor when vit is low compared to ee. In the case where vit is high compared to ee it'll do much less of course. The crazy thing is... if we consider what reasonable levels of vit vs ee are possible at each level, we'd end up with multiple ratios depending on level... I feel like that's unacceptable so we're gonna have to eyeball it :P
Member
Posts: 27,603
Joined: Dec 10 2008
Gold: 1,470.74
Dec 3 2018 03:41pm
thats why i mentioned to leave the armors as is since it's worked the last 12 years without issue. you have to make a governing line thats not confusing and stick to it. if not it will turn to chaos in a hurry.
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