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Dec 4 2018 01:40pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 4 2018 12:37pm)
Yes, everybody who disagrees with you has no understanding of geopolitics.

It's a pretty broad cast of characters here that you're on the other side of... hawks like Lindsey Graham and doves like Rand Paul. But hey, orange man good, everybody else bad.


was gonna say pretty much exactly that with the same characters

very rare to see 2 like them on the same side of an issue in some form
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Dec 4 2018 01:41pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 4 2018 01:32pm)
And people that have an understanding of geopolitics.


I would hope those ignorant halfwits with an iq bordering on mental retardation realize "action" does not mean starting a war with Saudi Arabia. But even flushed with the Christmas spirit I dont have much hope.

Our president currently has a princely pube stuck in the back of his throat, a year ago he was playing a game of who has the more girthy nukes with Kim Jong Un.

his stance on the Saudi murder rings similar to the "i talked to putin, he said he didn't do it" moment. he's shilling for a guy without much reason to from my perspective.

in reality a war hasn't ever been on the table, and the constant "you're gonna start a holy war" narrative i see all over is stupid. ive been calling for a long time to starve OPEC, but i dont even want something that extreme. how about: "a lot of people are investigating this. we'll see what turns up, things aren't adding up. when we have a more clear picture with who is responsible we may have to impose some penalties, not good." instead of the ball stroking. Trump lampooned Obama for going over there and bowing down to the Saudis and stroking the glowing ball, and he's just as weak.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 4 2018 01:42pm
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Dec 4 2018 01:47pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 4 2018 12:37pm)
Yes, everybody who disagrees with you has no understanding of geopolitics.

It's a pretty broad cast of characters here that you're on the other side of... hawks like Lindsey Graham and doves like Rand Paul. But hey, orange man good, everybody else bad.


As usual every discussion on here boils down to Drumpf with you, truly an obsession.

This isn’t about Trump, it’s a lot bigger than him.

The question that should be asked is who benefits from a worsening relationship with the the saudis and what is the long term repercussions I.e. our power to influence them infighting terrorism, countering Iran, etc, etc.

In class I’ll reapond to you later snipa

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 4 2018 01:51pm
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Dec 4 2018 01:51pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 4 2018 01:47pm)
As usual every discussion on here boils down to Drumpf with you, truly an obsession.

This isn’t about Trump, it’s a lot bigger than him.

The question that should be asked is who benefits from a worsening relationship with the the saudis and what is the long term repercussions I.e. our power to influence them infighting terrorism, countering Iran, etc, etc.


we're literally talking about the difference between Trump's response on the murder and how prominent Republican congressmen are responding.

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Dec 4 2018 01:57pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 4 2018 02:47pm)
As usual every discussion on here boils down to Drumpf with you, truly an obsession.

This isn’t about Trump, it’s a lot bigger than him.

The question that should be asked is who benefits from a worsening relationship with the the saudis and what is the long term repercussions I.e. our power to influence them infighting terrorism, countering Iran, etc, etc.


A snide comment about your Trump loyalty isn't really turning the topic into a discussion on Trump, but I know you're sensitive.

Oh? You mean America has an interest in the Saudi relationship? And if we were to cut that relationship off tomorrow there would be negative consequences?

Brilliant analysis. If only Lindsey Graham and Bob Corker understood those things. You should write for CFR or something.
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Dec 4 2018 04:04pm
So the CIA and Haspel just briefed Congress on the Khashoggi murder, and every Senator left the room believing MBS ordered the killing of the journalist. Which begs the question....why did Trump, Pompeo, and Bolton publicly dance around in ambiguity when given very similar CIA intelligence? We've known for weeks that MBS was very likely involved due to leaks from US intelligence (which is another problem and story in itself). A brutal member of Saudi royalty issuing the order of a critical journalist...it's not exactly a surprise ending here.
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Dec 4 2018 04:22pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 4 2018 12:41pm)
I would hope those ignorant halfwits with an iq bordering on mental retardation realize "action" does not mean starting a war with Saudi Arabia. But even flushed with the Christmas spirit I dont have much hope.

Our president currently has a princely pube stuck in the back of his throat, a year ago he was playing a game of who has the more girthy nukes with Kim Jong Un.

his stance on the Saudi murder rings similar to the "i talked to putin, he said he didn't do it" moment. he's shilling for a guy without much reason to from my perspective.

in reality a war hasn't ever been on the table, and the constant "you're gonna start a holy war" narrative i see all over is stupid. ive been calling for a long time to starve OPEC, but i dont even want something that extreme. how about: "a lot of people are investigating this. we'll see what turns up, things aren't adding up. when we have a more clear picture with who is responsible we may have to impose some penalties, not good." instead of the ball stroking. Trump lampooned Obama for going over there and bowing down to the Saudis and stroking the glowing ball, and he's just as weak.


An action doesn't mean starting a war that's obvious and I don't think a single knowledgeable person holds that perspective so why even bring up some hyperbolic nonsense?

I mean lets start with the macro perspective on the ME. What's our objective there, who are our adversaries, what helps our position versus what hurts it.

Iran is a threat to our power in the ME on some level. Whether you are in the "Iran is the number one sponsor of terrorism" camp or just cognisant that they have sponsored people like Assad, have empowered Shias in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, compete for influence in places like Iraq, Pakistan and so on, both camps would agree that they are not aligned with the current status quo that we support. I agree with Iran that they have a right to power in their region, and historically we've been in the wrong in how we treated them but that's beside the point. The argument here is it in our best interests or in the interests of some of our key allies in the region like Israel to weaken our relationship with arguably a top 3 or 4 power in the region? Who gains from this weakened relationship? What do we gain from a weakened relationship? Etc. If you want to answer these questions with some substance I'm all ears.

My spidey senses are tingling because I look at the world and there seems to be something strange about this incident and the response it's generating. Egypt has killed journalists and no one made a fuss, Myanmar has killed journalists and most of the world moved on from it, many other countries that are much more modernized & westernized, like Turkey have purged journalists and dissenters and there wasn't this great world uproar. It just seems unnatural the response this is generating and the natural call to "do something" about it, when if you just step back and look at the bigger picture you realize that doing something about could hurt our hegemony, not help it.

Quote (IceMage @ Dec 4 2018 12:57pm)
A snide comment about your Trump loyalty isn't really turning the topic into a discussion on Trump, but I know you're sensitive.

Oh? You mean America has an interest in the Saudi relationship? And if we were to cut that relationship off tomorrow there would be negative consequences?

Brilliant analysis. If only Lindsey Graham and Bob Corker understood those things. You should write for CFR or something.


I can't care less what politicians say publicly and what they feign outrage about in front of cameras. I shared my perspective on why I think this is happening on the previous page and provided some really good background info. You as always make nuanced discussions one dimensional by bringing Trump in the picture just so you can get your daily TDS off your chest.
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Dec 6 2018 01:34am
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Dec 6 2018 04:18am
Saudi-backed lobbyist paid for 500 rooms at Trump hotel just after 2016 election

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12172437

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Dec 6 2018 04:23am
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Dec 14 2018 10:20am
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/senate-votes-stop-us-support-yemen-war-condemns-212009405.html

decent consolation price tbh.

if we wont hit them in the barrels at least we can publicly say there's no good winner in the Iran-Saudi proxy wars.
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