d2jsp Forums > Starcraft I & II > Minerals And Sc2 Theoriecrafts And > Pro's Doing It Wrong
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
#1 Aug 15 2018 06:25am
Group: Member
Posts: 32,460
Joined: Jun 11 2008
Gold: 791.84
At 2 SCVs/mineral and 3 SCVs/gas, a base with 8 minerals and 2 gas will harvest ~672 minerals and ~215 gas per game minute.

thats 42 minerals per worker per min
and 35.8 gas per worker per min (goes upto 42gas per min per worker when put 2 workers per gas)

tdlr: gas or minerals, it takes the same time to harvest it

so a infestor costs 100minirals and 150gas and 2/8*100supply = 275coins
so a zealot costs 2/8*100supply+100minirals = 125coins

building a supply depot cost (21sec buildtime+6.66sec traveltime)/60sec*42minerals per min = 19.4minerals lost from mining ===>119.4minerals for a supply depot

Their timed life allows 9/10 mining trips which totals 225/250 minerals respectively on any mineral patch.
so a Mule mine 237.5minirals avg from your mineral field
when do so, you destroy avg 12.5minirals from your mineral field, without mining it

a standard mineral field have 1800 minerals
and a standard Geyser have 2500 gas


So if you have 6gass workers, you could have 17.28mineral workers, and make your resources mined out at the same time

So i looks like a mule is twice as cost effective as calling down supply depots,
but a mule makes it happen that your minerall field depleats twice as fast as you Geyser, making you get 66.6%profit from a expension compared to a protoss player, amplyfied bye low gas costs of terran units
when a ''Calldown: Extra Supplies'' creates minerals out of air, and overall not requires workers that occupy supply.

So basicly you spent 150minerals to create a orbital Command, to make profits from air.
remember the build time of orbital command not allowing you to build workers, making the profits decay in the short term
instead of taking that profit, you wana double it, at the cost of your expension-duration+effectivniss
instead of taking the long term profit, you wana undo the short-term-gold lost on scv creations

Protoss dudes, stop chroneshift your workers, your delaying your tech/expension with minutes when do so, and you not gain alot from it
1)you start 12 workers, so you only need 4 more, and gass-miners, so why chronoshit workers, if you not expended yet and not have gass yet?
2)get gateway/tech first, so you can add gass asap, makes you allow 3-6more workers to use in main
3)you start 12 workers, building a nexus faster instead of spending it on workers-chroneshifted, will result in the same profit at the 2min mark
4)tech is everything, get your fcking zealot out of here

thats why,

terran: You delay orbital command, never use mule, and call-down-supplies on all supply depots
zerg: Get gas and some tech. The use of gas makes you get 66.6%more profit from every single hatchery and larve
protoss: You only chronoshift when have a 2nd nexus, and you mostly chronoshift your upgrades, and long duration productions in expensive facility

it may be a bit 4vs4 orientated, but the theorie works for 1vs1 aswell, even when it may require some modifications to the current meta.
like the 3-3marines(no stim) 166.6supply 6min mark push, pretty good aswell in 4vs4, without alot of gas
#2 Aug 15 2018 02:17pm
Group: Member
Posts: 56,727
Joined: Feb 15 2009
Gold: 0.00
You are still retarded
#3 Aug 25 2018 05:58am
Group: Member
Posts: 4,254
Joined: Jul 3 2008
Gold: 0.00
lol, such bullshit
wb tommyvv
#4 Sep 10 2018 08:37pm
Group: Member
Posts: 32,460
Joined: Jun 11 2008
Gold: 791.84
a queen injecting a hatchery results in the same larve as a afk-hatchery, but it cost micro, and you need to spent the larve asap to not prevent hatchery-larve production.
queen best for creep tumor, so nn more then 2 queen
just be greedy and get 4-6hatchery and get static defend

your mined out sooner, since you start 12 workers instead of 5, therefore a queen becomes even less important
so if you take 66drones to farm 3bases, you already need a 4e+5e base

you have 3-5bases to build 46drones, so nn inject larve for that.
just 1 or 2 inject in a game, is what you need at the start
1-2inject just before you start battle, to rebuild losses, can do it when rebuild aswell
but a eurly game creep tumor, gets alot of hitpoints, and conects your bases

hatch-hatch-pool-gas-Lair-2queen(inject 3e base)-3Spine+3spore, keep drones at 66.6>hydra+zerg speed+oversees speed+1/1>muta>broodlord
#5 Sep 12 2018 03:12am
Group: Member
Posts: 32,460
Joined: Jun 11 2008
Gold: 791.84
was doing armour upgrades on mutalist, to abuce regen! 0attack/2armour
pretty OP vs marines! but may require better micro, to retreat injured muta.
also, opponents seems to ragequit alot when i bring muta
verry good, when killing reinforcments or picking on small groups, since you heal streight after

also did a good old, proxy-Lair, swarmhost push.
i won, but the micro fucked up my macro to dam hard.

i like free units, i like them so hard, they are maximum abusment. they are like heimerturrets and teemoshroom
Terran and protoss have some nice freeunits (like raven turrets, 50 energy for a 10sec turret) (e/used to be 180to240sec)

Lets talk about infestors and Infested Terran
25energy to spam 1 Infested Terran that have 5sec egg form and 21sec uptime
Energy is passively generated at 0.7875 energy per second

when perfectly spam locust from swarhost every 43 seconds, they probably be just a bit better then Infested Terran.
but thats when energy comes to mind, you only need to micro, ones per 200/0.7875=253seconds
instead of ones per 43seconds

so i need few queens (2to5), 1 queen will make 6660hitpoints of creep tummors, spammed randomly
i make overseer, Changeling everywhere (150sec duration they have,for 50energy, i want them to tank)
about 10to20 infestor's (thats free 20 marines 100%of time//// or 160marines for 25sec, ones per 253seconds)
about 15to20 Mutalist (to regen between attacks and to defend)
about 10to20 Hydralisk (to defend, and maybe some Lurker to defend) to build up defend against all in fast pushes
mineral dump: spores, spines, drones (a queen spamming tummors is huge micro required, you not want 10+ of them) maybe just like 20 speedlings

This post was edited by Tommyvv on Sep 12 2018 03:22am
#6 Sep 18 2018 05:43am
Group: Member
Posts: 32,460
Joined: Jun 11 2008
Gold: 791.84
free units builds to dam hard to execute well! need to practice it better

why would someone upgrade a Roach into a Ravager?
25%more dps, 17.3%less life, 100%more costs, 300%more gass costs, requires micro to undo shitfail unit.

you call me cheese? because 5min muta?
when Pro's apply same cheese every game, like Adept, and dt-drops, archon-drops. as a opening
who even builds Adept's?
cost 150 coins (incl food), cost micro, cost tech-delay
you need to kill 5 of my drones before it pays off

you build your 1ste hatchery at your meta-4e-base-spot, and your second hatchery at your natural:
1)creep spread without a queen (your 1ste creep tumor gives more creep then someone with 4creep tumors 1min ago)
2)frondline is ready first, you have production at the frondline, your sooner at the enemy
3)your 4e is just infrond of your natural, its more ezz to defend a nutaral+4e, then a natural+3e
4)your queen is build here
5)better succes against cheese cannon/bunker-rushes

5to6 zergling sounds better then a spine crawler? it may be!
but are 20 zergling better then 4spine crawler? in my opinion, maybe when they have zergling speed
are 20 speedlings better then 6spine crawler? not if they are idle in base defending, or when they attack when you get herassed
ones you have other units, spines may outperform zerglings pretty ezz, and basicly you start with drones, they can fight aswell
spines also direcly counter any A-clicks on any minirel line, without needing to micro, or without needing time
why would you need to sacrafice 400minerals of zergings at the 4min mark, to kill drones for the same amount, when you can sent muta at 5.5min mark, that not die?
#7 Sep 19 2018 07:39am
Group: Member
Posts: 32,460
Joined: Jun 11 2008
Gold: 791.84
At 2 SCVs/mineral and 3 SCVs/gas, a base with 8 minerals and 2 gas will harvest ~672 minerals and ~215 gas per game minute.
hatch: Builds: Larva - spawns every 11 s
queen: Energy is passively generated at 0.7875 energy per second===> 1Larve per 10.6seconds

(672+215)/60*11 = 163 Coins can be spent per larve, if not inject (82Coins per larve if also inject)
672/60*11/2 = 62 Coins can be spent per larve if inject and not mine gass (zergling meta builds)
215*2/60*11 = 79 Coins can be spent per larve if unit cost same mineral as gass, and not inject (muta)

if have a hatchery where is not fully mined at, then numbers drop, for example, you have 3 hatchery, and only 2hatchery's are mined from,
79*0.666=52 Coins can be spent per larve if unit cost same mineral as gass, and not inject (muta), when have 3bases and 4gass

lets say, you have 3hatchery+1queen+24workers on minirals(1.5base)
672*1.5income/60sec*11/4 = 46coins per larve can be spent

Without Queen injects, i could go with 75% less larve, when building muta
When mine a hatchery at 73%potential (no gass) i need a queen and 0.5micro hatch, to have plenty of larve to build zerglings
When inject a hatchery with 16workers , there is no money to build Tier2units, tech, hatchery, overlords, defend

Queen injects is back from Hots, when you started 6workers, and queens where must to boost workers amounts.
when tech was delayed 3min, making zerglings better units, also boosted with queen.

#8 Sep 20 2018 05:34am
Group: Member
Posts: 32,460
Joined: Jun 11 2008
Gold: 791.84

pro's get the vision of creep at the 7 min mark after building 3+queens, when i have the same at the <3min mark with 1 queen
#9 Sep 25 2018 07:16am
Group: Member
Posts: 32,460
Joined: Jun 11 2008
Gold: 791.84
zvt and zvp, verry good, the 3 base muta opening,

you start 1ste hatch at 4e base: see the picture

after that you start your 2nd hatch at your natural, asap, for your Liar location
you want your Liar at your natural, there where you tech building are, and there where you defences are
(vs zerg you not have the time to get 2hatchery before pool, therefore your first hatchery is at natural)
after 2nd hatchery you do a gas-pool-queen at 4th-Liar-spines

1) you need alot of creep tumors to get that creep spread at your 4th base location
2) a extra hatch instead of a queen, gives food instead of costing it and allow larve production without injects
3) when herasses, you can pull drones and still farm at 100%effectivniss, when leave a base empty
4) your enemy think you do macro game, but instead you planning to win at 5.5min mark
5) 4min 6gass timings

a few(+/-3)spine+1queen instead of zergling, it pretty match hold all reaper and adepts openings without loosing shit
1) cost no food
2) cost no larve
3) drone war, you can loose 4drones to kill 1unit that costs 100coins, and still profit
my drones do serounds, kill shit, tank harder, (i can even burrow them and give them armour)
4) still defend after a-click or pull army for attack
5) still functions in the lategame, like meta-drops
6) sinergy better with 3hatch+1queen, then with 2hatch+2to3queen

ofc it have some risks aswell, aspecialy when enter bigger MMR
a eurly Roach helps with that

just before your Liar completes, you want a 2nd gas at your main,
ones your Lair completes, you build go Muta-tech and get 6gass after doing it.
ones you can build muta, build 9to11of them, and start +1muta armour asap

before you attack with muta, you get 5hatchery + rouch tech+ hydra tech (5.5to6min mark)
meanwhile attacking with muta, you drone and make ground army+rouch-hydra-speed +1+1 / overlord speed + 4oversees

you cripled your enemy with the muta, you even forced antiair, and destroyed any pure ground compostion (tank production stoped and destroyed, and toss ground elemenated)
and then you strike with 200food of muta-rouch-hydra-overseer at the 10to11min mark
#10 Sep 30 2018 08:09pm
Group: Member
Posts: 2,758
Joined: Dec 30 2015
Gold: 20.00
lmao i remember you

Go Back To Starcraft I & II Topic List
Add Reply New Topic New Poll