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Aug 2 2020 06:32pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 2 Aug 2020 23:36)
That's an interesting study, thanks for sharing!
Here's a link to the original study your figaro article is talking about:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916

This study has several limitations that are talked about in the article itself:

First, in the discussion part, they cite 5 other studies that also found increased levels of clinical markers for heart inflammation in former covid patients. Then, they point out that these 5 previous studies on the subject did not find cardiac incolvement to be uncorrelated with the severity of the disease.


Second, they stress several limitations of their study:


The bolded part seems particularly troubling to me. If their cohort contained several patients who were still showing covid symptoms, this may completely skew or bias the data.


Third, the study did actually find a small but positive association between the severity of the disease (operationalized here by home recovery vs hospitalization) and one of the clinical markers of cardiac involvement (Native T1), and the fact that this difference is not significant for their third marker (troponin T) seems to be the result of all subgroups having a large share of patients where this marker takes on the base value of 3. If you excluded the 3s in the figure below and only looked at those patients with an increased level of troponin T, the difference between home recovererd and hospitalized covid patients should become significant.

https://i.imgur.com/kYq94ox.png




To sum it up: the authors of this study cited five previous studies who, unlike them, did find an association between severity of the disease and markers of heart damage. They included several patients with a still ongoing covid disease in their study. And they did in fact find a significant difference between home and hospital recovered covid patients with regards to one of their markers, and potentially also for a second marker if we exclude cases where that marker doesnt react at all. Only for the Native T2 marker did they show data which is fairly clear in not exhibiting a difference between patients with the more and the less severe course of the covid infection.



Dont get me wrong, I dont want to shit all over this study, I just wanted to point out that it's findings run partly contrary to previous research on this subject and are much less conclusive than the newspaper article suggested.


Bold part is fine, blood system seems to suffer and "several" is not such a game changer destroying the study.
some patients are sick for months.
Don't get me wrong, but sras or mers are both corona viruses and there's severe sequels with both.
I posted that months ago: like war, crippled ones are a super huge issue.
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Aug 3 2020 07:42am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 3 Aug 2020 02:32)
Bold part is fine, blood system seems to suffer and "several" is not such a game changer destroying the study.
some patients are sick for months.
Don't get me wrong, but sras or mers are both corona viruses and there's severe sequels with both.
I posted that months ago: like war, crippled ones are a super huge issue.


True, but then again, Covid-19 is very different from the original SARS and MERS in that it has a faaaar lower lethality and a faaaar higher transmissibility. Covid-19 goes by unnoticed or with very mild symptoms in the vast majority of patients - it's just so dangerous because it has the potential to infect hundreds of thousands of people in a very short timeframe, and because we dont have effective treatment yet for the cases which do develop severe symptoms.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 3 2020 07:42am
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Aug 3 2020 01:50pm
You can see more of the tangled web of inter-European disdain here.

Britain would help everyone else in a crisis (though most won't help us), Finns are often reluctant to help others, and Hungary is the Millwall of Europe.

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Aug 4 2020 03:59am
Quote (dro94 @ 3 Aug 2020 21:50)
You can see more of the tangled web of inter-European disdain here.

Britain would help everyone else in a crisis (though most won't help us), Finns are often reluctant to help others, and Hungary is the Millwall of Europe.

https://imgur.com/6EellgF.jpg


i don't know if you intended to frame it in a way that makes it sound like that was something unique to the EU or europeans, but you could make such a poll between any number of countries, and the outcome would be a 'tangled web of' something something, really whatever you want to portray it as - and most likely you'd see much more red in most constellations. so 'web of solidarity' would have been just as correct, arguably even a more fitting description here.

still, some interesting takeaways here (even though the relative ungratefulness / selfishness of southern and eastern european countries is really nothing new), seeing how low some of the most generous (total and per capita) countries like the netherlands and germany rank.
it'd be interesting to learn how much of that is media / political narrative driven, and how different those numbers would look if the greek for example learned the whole truth about the many decades of mismanagement of their own governments leading to their financial crisis, and not just the one-sided blaming of the countries that stepped in to fix their mess after it collapsed. obviously there is little incentive to tell that story, as it's much easier and convenient to blame the big bad germans than to accept responsibility for your own actions. a familiar theme really.

also, i'm sure you will acknowledge that responses towards the uk would have looked much differently a couple of years ago, before the whole brexit theatre, the endless negotiations and stalling - otherwise you guys would be the 'millwall of europe'.

finally, i just found out i'm finnish.
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Aug 4 2020 05:49am
Quote (fender @ Aug 4 2020 10:59am)
i don't know if you intended to frame it in a way that makes it sound like that was something unique to the EU or europeans, but you could make such a poll between any number of countries, and the outcome would be a 'tangled web of' something something, really whatever you want to portray it as - and most likely you'd see much more red in most constellations. so 'web of solidarity' would have been just as correct, arguably even a more fitting description here.

still, some interesting takeaways here (even though the relative ungratefulness / selfishness of southern and eastern european countries is really nothing new), seeing how low some of the most generous (total and per capita) countries like the netherlands and germany rank.
it'd be interesting to learn how much of that is media / political narrative driven, and how different those numbers would look if the greek for example learned the whole truth about the many decades of mismanagement of their own governments leading to their financial crisis, and not just the one-sided blaming of the countries that stepped in to fix their mess after it collapsed. obviously there is little incentive to tell that story, as it's much easier and convenient to blame the big bad germans than to accept responsibility for your own actions. a familiar theme really.

also, i'm sure you will acknowledge that responses towards the uk would have looked much differently a couple of years ago, before the whole brexit theatre, the endless negotiations and stalling - otherwise you guys would be the 'millwall of europe'.

finally, i just found out i'm finnish.


The response to the UK is worse because of that, but to what extent? I think we were always perceived negatively due to our longstanding Euroscepticism and cultural differences owing to the channel that separates us from mainland Europe.
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Aug 4 2020 06:17am
Quote (dro94 @ 3 Aug 2020 21:50)
You can see more of the tangled web of inter-European disdain here.

Britain would help everyone else in a crisis (though most won't help us), Finns are often reluctant to help others, and Hungary is the Millwall of Europe.

https://imgur.com/6EellgF.jpg


UK less popular than Nigeria and deserves it.

/e and English people now having the best interest in dividing EU.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Aug 4 2020 06:18am
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Aug 4 2020 07:16am
Quote (fender @ 4 Aug 2020 11:59)
i don't know if you intended to frame it in a way that makes it sound like that was something unique to the EU or europeans, but you could make such a poll between any number of countries, and the outcome would be a 'tangled web of' something something, really whatever you want to portray it as - and most likely you'd see much more red in most constellations. so 'web of solidarity' would have been just as correct, arguably even a more fitting description here.

still, some interesting takeaways here (even though the relative ungratefulness / selfishness of southern and eastern european countries is really nothing new), seeing how low some of the most generous (total and per capita) countries like the netherlands and germany rank.
it'd be interesting to learn how much of that is media / political narrative driven, and how different those numbers would look if the greek for example learned the whole truth about the many decades of mismanagement of their own governments leading to their financial crisis, and not just the one-sided blaming of the countries that stepped in to fix their mess after it collapsed. obviously there is little incentive to tell that story, as it's much easier and convenient to blame the big bad germans than to accept responsibility for your own actions. a familiar theme really.

also, i'm sure you will acknowledge that responses towards the uk would have looked much differently a couple of years ago, before the whole brexit theatre, the endless negotiations and stalling - otherwise you guys would be the 'millwall of europe'.

finally, i just found out i'm finnish.


It's indeed interesting to see how low the EU's major net contributors like NL or GER rank. I think the main reason is that these "Northern EU countries" saw a strong labor market over the past decade, while Spain/Iltay/Greece suffered from huge unemployment and the Eastern Europeans had to move to us in droves, just so they could be exploited in meatpacking factories or picking crop.

When only looking at the topline numbers, it looks as if countries like Germany or the Netherlands are the big 'winners' of the EU. One needs to delve deeper to see that it's mostly our multinational corporations and rich who benefit from the EU and the Euro while a ton of our ordinary citizens are getting fucked in the ass just as hard as those in the South/East.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 4 2020 07:16am
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Aug 11 2020 07:44am
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Aug 11 2020 10:42am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Aug 4 2020 02:17pm)
UK less popular than Nigeria and deserves it.

/e and English people now having the best interest in dividing EU.


Mad frenchie cuz you can't get more money from them now they're out.

Seems like you'll have to reform that pension system and keep work just like the other you effing leeches ^_^

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Aug 11 2020 11:46am
1,148 new cases in the UK today, the highest figure in 7 weeks. Looks like we're heading the way of Spain and France with a consistent increase in cases:



Hospital deaths have reduced massively over the past few months to around 5 a day, but it remains to be seen if that continues as cases rise. Daily reported death figures are higher than actuals as Public Health England report a death every time a person that was ever diagnosed with coronavirus dies.

Pretty good visual of how the increase in cases are looking across different countries. All an upwards trend but none as alarming as Spain.



This post was edited by dro94 on Aug 11 2020 11:52am
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