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Djunior
#4901 Jul 23 2020 03:03am
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Quote (fender @ Jul 23 2020 10:44am)
don't try to educate that idiot. it has been fun watching him display his utter ignorance regarding european politics so proudly, completely missing even the most basic information, motivation, and concepts behind this whole deal.
i would have let him embarrass himself for some more days. now he's gonna claim he simply 'doesn't care' - after having posted about it for three days...


Idiot "progressive" (lol) eurofiles should go explain to their countrymen why that greek bailout money is never coming back and all that ECB bailout money (lol quantitative easing) is sitting on the ECB balance sheet forever and this new "great EU deal" is all wasted.

Explain to them the southern members will never be competitive so it's waiting for the next cash injection and this means the union is doomed in the long run.

Now who's the idiot here ^^

You are completely clueless. It's fun watching you posting all that idiotic dribble though. Keep it up kid




This post was edited by Djunior on Jul 23 2020 03:07am
Black XistenZ
#4902 Jul 23 2020 03:24am
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Quote (Djunior @ 23 Jul 2020 10:54)
I know the french have scores of issues but the southern countries have bigger and more acute problems. You failed to mention that financial markets give france a lot more credit than certain southern members which means said southern members would collapse if not propped up by the other members. We almost saw a greek collapse after greece was downgraded to junk status by the financial markets.

These kind of rescue packages that are presented as "fantastic deals great for the EU" are simply needed to prevent a catastrophic financial crises that would lead to bankruptcy of southern members and perhaps the end of the union. Simple as that.

Also, I already mentioned that reforms are needed and certain countries have been dragging their feet for a long time already. See my post (bold part)


The least politically toxic solution to the imbalances of the eurozone (without breaking up the eurozone...) would be significantly rising wages in the northern countries. This would lessen the competitive advantage of the German (and Dutch and Austrian etc.) economy relative to Italy/Spain/France, and it would increase the willingness in the frugal northern countries to accept higher inflation rates.

This approach is certainly less politically toxic than forcing austerity and labor market reforms on the southern countries, or establishing permanent and annual multi-billion transfers from the north to the south. But rising wages would cut into the profits of our multinationals, and the whole raison d'ĂȘtre of the EU has always been to facilitate the interests of these multinationals, so I dont see that happening either.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 23 2020 03:26am
zarkadon
#4903 Jul 23 2020 03:26am
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Quote (Djunior @ 23 Jul 2020 11:03)
Idiot "progressive" (lol) eurofiles should go explain to their countrymen why that greek bailout money is never coming back and all that ECB bailout money (lol quantitative easing) is sitting on the ECB balance sheet forever and this new "great EU deal" is all wasted.

Explain to them the southern members will never be competitive so it's waiting for the next cash injection and this means the union is doomed in the long run.

Now who's the idiot here ^^

You are completely clueless. It's fun watching you posting all that idiotic dribble though. Keep it up kid


Have you read anything about the agreement?

The member states that do receive money WILL have to do reforms, and half of the transferred money will be paid back. There will be control mechanisms to make sure that all member states comply... the European Commission will have to approve by a majority the strategy of each state, and if one of them isn't acting as agreed, they will stop being funded and may be punished.

Also, 30% of the money will be destined to fighting climate change and renewing the industry and infrastructures, to make for a more eco-friendly and sustainable future. Non-recycled plastics will be taxed to help fund these aids.

Over all, it's a compromise between what Southern States demanded, and what the governments of Finland, Sweden, Austria and the Netherlands wanted. An agreement was necessary, everyone agreed on this even if they had different vies on how to handle it, and this was the best way to try to make everyone happy.
Black XistenZ
#4904 Jul 23 2020 03:32am
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Quote (zarkadon @ 23 Jul 2020 11:26)
Have you read anything about the agreement?

The member states that do receive money WILL have to do reforms, and half of the transferred money will be paid back. There will be control mechanisms to make sure that all member states comply... the European Commission will have to approve by a majority the strategy of each state, and if one of them isn't acting as agreed, they will stop being funded and may be punished.

Also, 30% of the money will be destined to fighting climate change and renewing the industry and infrastructures, to make for a more eco-friendly and sustainable future. Non-recycled plastics will be taxed to help fund these aids.

Over all, it's a compromise between what Southern States demanded, and what the governments of Finland, Sweden, Austria and the Netherlands wanted. An agreement was necessary, everyone agreed on this even if they had different vies on how to handle it, and this was the best way to try to make everyone happy.


To the best of my knowledge, the bolded part is not true. It was an important part of the compromise that there is NO veto power for every single country - instead, approval of the grants will only require either a two-thirds majority, or a 'qualified majority'. (Which in the EU means that at least 55% of the member states, representing at least 65% of the EU population, have to agree.) Thus, the frugal 5 do not have the power to block the funds by themselves, they needed to get Germany on board - but that's not gonna happen as long as Merkel is at the helm, who only cares about her own political legacy and gives a shit about the interests of German taxpayers.
zarkadon
#4905 Jul 23 2020 03:39am
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Quote (Black XistenZ @ 23 Jul 2020 11:32)
To the best of my knowledge, the bolded part is not true. It was an important part of the compromise that there is NO veto power for every single country - instead, approval of the grants will only require either a two-thirds majority, or a 'qualified majority'. (Which in the EU means that at least 55% of the member states, representing at least 65% of the EU population, have to agree.) Thus, the frugal 5 do not have the power to block the funds by themselves, they needed to get Germany on board - but that's not gonna happen as long as Merkel is at the helm, who only cares about her own political legacy and gives a shit about the interests of German taxpayers.


Like I said, by a majority, not unanimously. There are no vetoes, but a qualified majority will have to approve the grants.

Giving countries vetoes and forcing decisions to be unanimous has a long history of hindering the process of european integration and reaching new agreements... shifting towards qualified majorities is the best way to keep the union healthy in the future imo.

This post was edited by zarkadon on Jul 23 2020 03:39am
Djunior
#4906 Jul 23 2020 05:53am
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Quote (zarkadon @ Jul 23 2020 11:26am)
Have you read anything about the agreement?

The member states that do receive money WILL have to do reforms, and half of the transferred money will be paid back. There will be control mechanisms to make sure that all member states comply... the European Commission will have to approve by a majority the strategy of each state, and if one of them isn't acting as agreed, they will stop being funded and may be punished.

Also, 30% of the money will be destined to fighting climate change and renewing the industry and infrastructures, to make for a more eco-friendly and sustainable future. Non-recycled plastics will be taxed to help fund these aids.

Over all, it's a compromise between what Southern States demanded, and what the governments of Finland, Sweden, Austria and the Netherlands wanted. An agreement was necessary, everyone agreed on this even if they had different vies on how to handle it, and this was the best way to try to make everyone happy.


When Eu leaders presented the package to bail out greece they also guaranteed it would be payed back. This is all political BS because these shitty leaders fear for their positions and rightfully so ^^

Explain to me how countries that are under performing to such extend are not going to need more money in the future but instead will have excess money that they can use to pay back all those billions. I'm not even talking about the political will needed to actually pay it back ^^

Go ;)

fender
#4907 Jul 31 2020 06:48am
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fender
#4908 Aug 1 2020 11:27am
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around 10k idiots, mostly without masks, demonstrated against corona measures in berlin today:



meanwhile cases in germany are on the rise again (around 900 new cases a day currently, was as low as 300-500 for a few weeks) as people are increasingly neglecting distancing recommendations during the hot summer days, at least partly fueled by germany's rather successful handling of the pandemic so far.
i fear we're in for a rude awakening thanks to those science deniers and selfish irresponsible people.

at least most parties largely agree on the current, science based approach (with some notable exceptions within the far-right afd naturally)...
dro94
#4909 Aug 1 2020 03:21pm
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Quote (fender @ Aug 1 2020 06:27pm)
around 10k idiots, mostly without masks, demonstrated against corona measures in berlin today:

https://static.euronews.com/articles/stories/04/85/40/80/773x435_cmsv2_6130b965-0111-553a-a53d-fe659c247b61-4854080.jpg

meanwhile cases in germany are on the rise again (around 900 new cases a day currently, was as low as 300-500 for a few weeks) as people are increasingly neglecting distancing recommendations during the hot summer days, at least partly fueled by germany's rather successful handling of the pandemic so far.
i fear we're in for a rude awakening thanks to those science deniers and selfish irresponsible people.

at least most parties largely agree on the current, science based approach (with some notable exceptions within the far-right afd naturally)...


It's the same in the UK and Spain, but at least cases are far below March/April levels and won't be in the future with lots of testing now informing localised decision making, in conjunction with social distancing.

Kinda makes me think how the hell the US can have 65k confirmed cases a day at this point, which is essentially 350-650k actual cases per day. At the current rate it'll get through nearly their entire population in a year.
Saucisson6000
#4910 Aug 1 2020 05:48pm
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Quote (fender @ 1 Aug 2020 19:27)
around 10k idiots, mostly without masks, demonstrated against corona measures in berlin today:

https://static.euronews.com/articles/stories/04/85/40/80/773x435_cmsv2_6130b965-0111-553a-a53d-fe659c247b61-4854080.jpg

meanwhile cases in germany are on the rise again (around 900 new cases a day currently, was as low as 300-500 for a few weeks) as people are increasingly neglecting distancing recommendations during the hot summer days, at least partly fueled by germany's rather successful handling of the pandemic so far.
i fear we're in for a rude awakening thanks to those science deniers and selfish irresponsible people.

at least most parties largely agree on the current, science based approach (with some notable exceptions within the far-right afd naturally)...


"social networks" aka Q & co
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