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Mar 28 2020 06:51am
Quote (fender @ 28 Mar 2020 13:43)
meanwhile, germany is flying in critical corona cases from northern italy to treat them here...



explain to me, what exactly do you think "happened to greece"? in what way were those poor guys mistreated by the EU in your opinion, and how would they have been better off without it?


Some of the ultra-austerity policies they were forced to implement were severely detrimental. For instance, the increase in public transport fees combined with the reduction of minimum wage, led to thousands of greeks who had minimum wage jobs in Athens, but lived in nearby towns, quit their jobs because they were better off saving up on public transport and receiving unemployment welfare. These people then earned a bit less, but they had a lot of free time which they used to make money by doing small unregistered jobs... leading to more submerged economy, tax evasion and unemployment.
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Mar 28 2020 06:55am
Quote (Djunior @ 28 Mar 2020 13:46)
Greece will pay for the rest of their existence because the fact of the matter is that their economy cannot compete with the economies of the richer nations but is expected to perform at that level. All the bailout money is expected back + interest by nations that provided the bailout. Don't tell me that you do not understand these basic facts.


lol. that is the most ridiculous, the most clueless and asinine 'analysis' of the greece situation i have ever read. there are whole threads in this forum analysing and discussing the situation in detail. the bare minimum i expected you to do is to copy one of the more intelligent takes from there. instead you came up with something that resembles a book report about a book that you didn't read, or trump trying to explain something that is more complicated than "democrat = bad"...

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Mar 28 2020 06:57am
Quote (Djunior @ 28 Mar 2020 13:46)
Greece will pay for the rest of their existence because the fact of the matter is that their economy cannot compete with the economies of the richer nations but is expected to perform at that level. All the bailout money is expected back + interest by nations that provided the bailout.Don't tell me that you do not understand these basic facts.


Rofl, if you genuinely believe this, you are horribly misinformed. Most credits for Greece have been given such advantageous conditions that they effectively amount to a donation instead of a credit. Almost all its credit lines from the rest of Europe have an interest rate of zero, and they dont need to start (sic!) paying the credits back until 15-30 years in the future (depending on the specific credit line).

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 28 2020 06:58am
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Mar 28 2020 07:02am
Quote (zarkadon @ 28 Mar 2020 13:51)
Some of the ultra-austerity policies they were forced to implement were severely detrimental. For instance, the increase in public transport fees combined with the reduction of minimum wage, led to thousands of greeks who had minimum wage jobs in Athens, but lived in nearby towns, quit their jobs because they were better off saving up on public transport and receiving unemployment welfare. These people then earned a bit less, but they had a lot of free time which they used to make money by doing small unregistered jobs... leading to more submerged economy, tax evasion and unemployment.


yep, and there are more examples of course. my question, however, was about the big picture, an overall evaluation, and specifically in what way greece would have been better off without the EU (obviously not just about the popular criticism of not allowing them to default, but in the context of their entire membership and the benefits they received from it). i'm not even suggesting that there wouldn't be any upsides, i just think those completely clueless EU bashers should put a little more thought into their posts...
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Mar 28 2020 07:06am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 28 2020 01:57pm)
Rofl, if you genuinely believe this, you are horribly misinformed. Most credits for Greece have been given such advantageous conditions that they effectively amount to a donation instead of a credit. Almost all its credit lines from the rest of Europe have an interest rate of zero, and they dont need to start (sic!) paying the credits back until 15-30 years in the future (depending on the specific credit line).


That money was added to other nations' national debt and we saw politicians promising that it will be paid back. Like you say yourself they must start paying back at some point in the future. How are they going to do that?. That's my point and a simple fact. It's not going to happen because Greece's economy can't compete and has plenty problems to deal with on it's own.
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Mar 28 2020 07:12am
This post is a violation of the site rules and appropriate action was taken.

Quote (fender @ Mar 28 2020 01:55pm)
lol. that is the most ridiculous, the most clueless and asinine 'analysis' of the greece situation i have ever read. there are whole threads in this forum analysing and discussing the situation in detail. the bare minimum i expected you to do is to copy one of the more intelligent takes from there. instead you came up with something that resembles a book report about a book that you didn't read, or trump trying to explain something that is more complicated than "democrat = bad"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0


Dumbass. You really believe the EU narrative you've been fed over the years eh. The Greece bailout was not some simple error, a mistake that can be fixed by some bailout money. You're too stupid to understand basic facts, that economy will never be as competitive / productive as is expected by the other nations. And needed, because they share the same currency you moron.
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Mar 28 2020 07:17am
Quote (Djunior @ 28 Mar 2020 14:06)
That money was added to other nations' national debt and we saw politicians promising that it will be paid back. Like you say yourself they must start paying back at some point in the future. How are they going to do that?. That's my point and a simple fact. It's not going to happen because Greece's economy can't compete and has plenty problems to deal with on it's own.


By the time they need to start paying back, the debt will have been inflated away, or they get new zero interest rate credits to replace the old ones. We're never going to get back this money we sent to Greece. But by having it in the books as credits, we dont have to write the money off, and our politicians can keep telling simple-minded voters that we didnt actually donate our taxpayers' money to Greece, that those billions in bailout were just a temporary loan.
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Mar 28 2020 07:23am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 28 2020 02:17pm)
By the time they need to start paying back, the debt will have been inflated away, or they get new zero interest rate credits to replace the old ones. We're never going to get back this money we sent to Greece. But by having it in the books as credits, we dont have to write the money off, and our politicians can keep telling simple-minded voters that we didnt actually donate our taxpayers' money to Greece, that those billions in bailout were just a temporary loan.


So you're saying that those politicians cleverly misled their voters. Hmm fits nicely into the scam that is the whole EU fairy tale.

It's inevitable that more and more people will wake up to the fact they're being scammed and will vote against these Eurofile parties ^^
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Mar 28 2020 07:26am
Quote (Djunior @ 28 Mar 2020 14:23)
So you're saying that those politicians cleverly misled their voters. Hmm fits nicely into the scam that is the whole EU fairy tale.

It's inevitable that more and more people will wake up to the fact they're being scammed and will vote against these Eurofile parties ^^


Of course it was a sham. Politicians cant possibly be straight-up with their voters: yes, we gave billions of your tax money to Greece, and over the coming years and decades, many more billions will follow, all so we can save the political project that is the Euro.
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Mar 28 2020 07:35am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 28 2020 02:26pm)
Of course it was a sham. Politicians cant possibly be straight-up with their voters: yes, we gave billions of your tax money to Greece, and over the coming years and decades, many more billions will follow, all so we can save the political project that is the Euro.


I don't think it's going to last decades tbh. It will be interesting to see if the union can manage this crisis to begin with. It's clear the lock downs have dire consequences.
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