non argument

but just food for thought without these "anti protesters " what violence would go down? nothing at all

You are defending Donald Hitler
He tweeted today that everyone living in Boston is an "anti-police agitator", continuing his false equivalency "both sides" rhetoric that he uses to dog whistle his support for white supremacy

These types of threads just get funnier and funnier.

You keep creating your own straw-men instead of basing your posts on what is actually being discussed in this thread.

Here's a brief rundown, I created a thread discussing the white nationalist rally in Virginia. The OP of this thread calls for our leadership in the oval office to take a strong stand on the issue, and unite against the growing infestation in this country that is ethno-nationalism. I called for the president to condemn the terrorist attack and the ideology behind the terrorist attack the same way the president himself has advocated for condemning Islamic terrorism, but more importantly I emphasized that the president needs to shut down the idea that he is an ally to these ethno-naitonalists.. which is not a notion coming from his opposition, but the ethno-nationalists themselves. In the OP I stated:



As explained in the above quote, the president is not a white nationalist, but he does bear a responsibility to address this issue in a proper manner, and unite the country against this evil. On the 14th of August the president made a breakthrough on the issue, which I shared in post #9 of this thread. The president statement reads:

"racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear American"


In post #29 of this thread I addressed another user on these forums suggested that the president's statement was made too late. I agreed that he would have displayed greater leadership had he addressed the issue in a proper manner sooner rather than later, but that the president's statement still represented an opportunity to unite on the issue.

...then, the following day the president undid the breakthrough he had previously made on the issue, by making a statement in which he went back to his original rhetoric. He then went on to spend more time condemning the counter protesters over the white nationalists, and proceeded to complain that the media was spending more time covering the acts of violence committed by the side that took part in murdering innocent civilians, instead of spending more time focusing on the acts of violence committed by the side that did not take part in murdering innocent civilians. He then proceeded to say that the media was unfair to the people who attended the white nationalist rally, and then added that they had "very fine people" on their side. The KKK responded to the president's statement with a thank you message

...Now lets make this perfectly clear, this rally in Virginia was organized by self identified white nationalists, and the individuals who attended the rally were waving nazi flags, chanting nazi slogans, and giving the nazi salute. The people on this side were not very fine people.. very fine people do not attend self identified white nationalists rallies to stand in unison with nazis. The president was very wrong to not take a decisive stance on this issue, and claim that there were very fine people on the side of the white nationalists. The president did not display strong leadership on this issue, he displayed very poor leadership... and it is also important to note that while the president has displayed awful leadership on this issue, that does not mean he is a white nationalists himself, and as an American citizen I still want to see the president do the right thing.

When the president makes a breakthrough, I am going to give him is due credit, but I am still going to criticize him in the areas he needs to make improvements. This is not about calling people we do not agree with "white nationalists", we call the rally in Virginia a white nationalist rally because that is how the organizers themselves have identified their rally. This white nationalist movement we are seeing in this country is evil, and we as Americans have an obligation to counter this movement in a legal and peaceful manner.

Do I condemn the acts of violence that were not done in self defense by individuals on the anti-fascist side? absolutely, but we mustn't use that as an excuse to break up our unity against this greater evil. I condemn the acts of violence committed by anti-fascists the same way I condemn war crimes committed by individuals who fought for the allies during WWII, but if you're going to sit here and pretend that the two sides are on an equal moral ground, then you need to be called out on your bullshit. Unnecessary violence is always evil, but the movement as a whole that is countering fascism is not evil. This is not an issue for us to be divided on, this is not a left vs right issue, standing against fascism is not an idea that is exclusively left leaning, and people who are right leaning shouldn't wish to support this notion that only left leaning people can stand against fascism. We need to unite against this evil, and in order to do that, our public officials bear a responsibility to be decisive and clear on this issue. No more making excuses and creating strawmen to counter arguments that no one is making.

It's a no brainier really, fascism is evil, and we as American are obligated to unite against it.. not make excuses for it

This post was edited by TCassa89 on Aug 19 2017 08:26pm

It should be to no one's surprise that the white nationalist who organized the rally in Virginia is a massive asshole

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-organizer-20170818-story.html

He sure sounds like an asshole.

But none of that changes the fact that the "peaceful protesters", threw the first punch. Ya can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's in plenty of videos. Unite the Right started the fight that night.


/e While on the subject, the same "peaceful protesters" were throwing bottled urine at the police in Boston.
Wtf is wrong with these folks.

This post was edited by Ghot on Aug 20 2017 11:24pm

The Unite the Right definitely did start it, and not just in Virginia, but in Portland this past May, and Manhattan this past March. These acts of violence actually go back several decades, only now they are enable to start lynch mobs, so they're instead spreading their terror through lone wolf attacks in select locations. Over 70% of all terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11 have been done by nationalist and other far right extremist groups

https://www.cato.org/blog/gao-weighs-countering-violent-extremism?utm_content=buffer111c5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

That of course isn't to say there haven't been acts of violence from the groups countering these white nationalists, but what we're talking about from them are outbursts that are comparable to the regular scuffles we see at sporting events between fans. There's is no body count from them at all, but that isn't to say it is not detestable behavior

This post was edited by TCassa89 on Aug 21 2017 12:43am

My bad. I meant the "peaceful protesters" started it. They are caught on video at Charlottesville..."starting it" as in they got physical...first.
Same thing is Boston.

I have the feeling that that is what Trump meant when he said: I blame both sides.

When I say started it...I mean "got physical"....first.

In this country it IS legal to hold rallys and say what you want to say. It only gets illegal when it gets physical.

Thx for catching that for me.


P.S. I know the white supremacist guys are jerks. But they didn't get physical...first.


In the cases of Charlottesville and Boston...I think BOTH sides were composed of idiots. An y time you get TWO groups of folks protesting against each other...they're both composed of idiots.

Protesting against a law, or a bill..I can see. Protesting against protestors is just stupid.








Fixed.

This post was edited by Ghot on Aug 21 2017 12:55am

Well that's where you're wrong, the white nationalists have been committing attacks like this for several decades(it's actually been over a century), and they are still continuing to add more and more victims to their overall body count. There are scuffles involving the counter protesters, which is pretty typical when you have two large opposing crowds. We see it all the time at sporting events, and we see it all the time at political rallies. It isn't acceptable behavior, but if someone were to commit a terrorist attack at a football game for example, no one would say that the terrorist who committed the attack did not start it. Especially when that terrorist isn't attacking anyone who was engaging in any fight

This post was edited by TCassa89 on Aug 21 2017 01:04am