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fender
#11981 Feb 19 2020 02:23am
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Quote (dro94 @ 18 Feb 2020 17:57)
Atletico aren't an elite club in terms of the players they can get and revenues they generated, even though they won 1 league title (and no champions league). They couldn't keep Griezzmann from going to Barca, Aguero going to City, Costa going to Chelsea, etc...

FFP stops owners from investing in their clubs to even have a chance against the 5 or 6 clubs that are actually elite. I'm not condoning Mansour's excessive investment into City but we can't have the situation where clubs can't have ownership investment in the top flight.


it's funny you realise that now. in the bundesliga that's just a reality thanks to ownership and self-imposed financial rules. it's what i've been telling you guys for years: we're basically competing with a massive financial disadvantage, despite having by far the highest average attendance in our stadiums... that's still true even if all clubs adhered to FFP rules, but at least it'd stop the most egregious abuse to just "buy titles"...
zarkadon
#11982 Feb 19 2020 06:08am
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Quote (B4al @ 18 Feb 2020 13:16)
I don't see how this actually changes the statement. Madrid went behind the doors to prize him away from Barcelona.

You said Madrid was a huge club. It wasn't. Not even biggest in the city.
You said Franco did not play a part in Madrid's success. Even if my wikipedia quotes (which i was throwing under debate, not using as known facts) 80% is false, which it isn't, he was the main factor behind your 14 league titles and 5 champions leagues. Madrid transformed under the dictatorial regime from a meh club into not only a national but an European Powerhouse.



:rofl: Good one.


It changes the statement that it was some kind of state conspiracy led by Franco. It was Madrid that made the move to snatch him, not the spanish government. You miss the part of the quote where it says that Di Stefano's contract with River had expired... it's not Madrid's fault that Barcelona wrongly agreed terms with River, rather than his new club, Millonarios.

You say that Madrid was a meh club before Franco, but this is completely wrong. Madrid won 2 out of the 7 Ligas that were held before the Civil War, and also 8 Copas. Barcelona also won 8 Copas, but only 1 Liga in that time. They were both very big clubs in Spain, with a huge following already. The only club that was more successful than them was Athletic, with 4 Ligas and 13 Copas... but that was because football's popularity was much higher in the Basque region up until the 1920's, so they had a head start.

I would disagree with the comment of Francoism issuing great support to Barcelona. The government pretty much stayed away from football as a whole, other than using the communist deflected players as propaganda, which did lead to occasional favours like Kubala's nationality.

If there was one club that was favoured though, then that would be Atlético... however, he wasn't really favoured by Franco or his government, but rather due to the club's strong ties with the army's aviation forces. Atlético even changed its name to Atlético Aviación for some time (Aviation Athletic), and they received money to build the stadium, a new training grounds, etc... which played a key role in their transformation from a club that relegated twice to Segunda in the 1930s, to one that won 4 Ligas between 1940 and 1951. These favours were only issued during the early years of the dictatorship, and like I said, were the Air Force's doing, and not the government itself, even if the military regime had complete control over the Air Force.

Quote (dro94 @ 18 Feb 2020 17:57)
Atletico aren't an elite club in terms of the players they can get and revenues they generated, even though they won 1 league title (and no champions league). They couldn't keep Griezzmann from going to Barca, Aguero going to City, Costa going to Chelsea, etc...

FFP stops owners from investing in their clubs to even have a chance against the 5 or 6 clubs that are actually elite. I'm not condoning Mansour's excessive investment into City but we can't have the situation where clubs can't have ownership investment in the top flight.


But Atlético has grown a lot in recent years...

They couldn't keep Aguero or Costa, but they could keep Griezmann. He's no even being paid more at Barcelona... the reason he left was because he was tired of parking the bus and wanted to know what it felt to play while having possession (or like he said, he was motivated to try to see how he'd fit in a different style of play).

Atlético aren't as rich as Madrid or Barcelona, but they do have a lot of money now. They spent over 90M€ on Lemar, 120M€ on Joao Felix, etc.... Simeone is the highest paid manager in the world (24M€ per season), and Griezmann's wage was even higher than that.

Obviously, I agree on your statement if we were talking about 4 years ago, but things have changed dramatically for Atlético in this time, and thanks to their good management, they've grown a lot. Their only issue now is that Simeone holds them back, especially in La Liga. He still plays without the ball, even at home against relegation teams... now that the bottom half of the teams have improved, they are much more capable of snatching points against Atlético by defending and counterattacking more effectively.
Edgard
#11983 Feb 19 2020 12:59pm
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Jesus Aguero Bernardo
Silva Rodri Kevin
Mendy Laporte Otamendi Walker
Ederson
Edgard
#11984 Feb 22 2020 01:14pm
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Jesus B)
WNxIrvine
#11985 Feb 22 2020 01:24pm
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Nice to know the money still stretches to paying off refs. Holy fuck.
dro94
#11986 Feb 22 2020 01:58pm
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Quote (WNxIrvine @ Feb 22 2020 07:24pm)
Nice to know the money still stretches to paying off refs. Holy fuck.


they didn't even score the pen so it had no impact on the game. you were well beaten bud, lighten up.
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