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Apr 27 2011 08:14am
Quote (Molek @ Apr 27 2011 01:27pm)
This subject is obviously pure PvE and it has nothing to do with PvP and even if it were, mercs are considered to be BM in duels.


Clearly don't know biococker..

He uses 4 buff chars in duels..

Sometimes more.


Quote (feanur @ Apr 27 2011 02:07pm)
DPS with Fortitude are 5.2% higher than with Treachery.
DPS with Fortitude are 14.6% higher than with Treachery.


?????

This post was edited by bla_1 on Apr 27 2011 08:16am
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Apr 27 2011 08:24am
feanur,
cb is affected by dr% and the spreadsheet for it is:

* Normal monster: 1/4 Melee, 1/8 Ranged Attack.
* Boss/Champion monster: 1/8 Melee, 1/16 Ranged Attack.
* Player/Hireling: 1/10 Melee, 1/20 Ranged Attack.

it is not affected by players in game. check the basin again.

plus, you cannot predict random effects. period.
best you can do is come up with an unreal situation of the worst case scenario, hence all applicable occurrences are actually in favor of more cb strikes or earlier cb strikes, and thus treachery becomes even more powerful.

your calculations about insight are probably wrong if you came up with fortitude on the higher up side, but im not going to check them.
edit: oh i see why, u didnt even take into account being decrepp'd and didn't make an avg wsm over 60 seconds.

This post was edited by Synonym on Apr 27 2011 08:32am
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Apr 27 2011 08:34am
cb is affected by the number of players in game. The more players you have in game, the slower your cb brings the hp of the monsters down, because cb calculates base on the original life during 1 player game, and not after it was mark up due to having more players in game. in a full player game, the hp of monsters is mark up, but sadly, cb doesn't get mark up as well. So cb is less effective in a 8 player game. This is pvm basics. If you can over look on this, this is seriously skeptical for all of us.


i owned both a cube bug treachery with 1000+def, and also a cube bug fort with 3.5k def. In practice, fort always win, it's very hard for me to be convince in the theory math when in practical, it is not the same. I am very confident to say fort is better because I own both, and use both, extensively. Check out my sig. I am famous of doing BOX UberS All alone. I'm the only spinner with a waller and 6 other leechers doing box style. I can say box ubers, the environment is even more adverse and harsh and intensive compared to listers. It's an environment with both heavy elemental damage and physical. Very harsh on the merc. How can anyone overlook this? I don't get it.

This post was edited by Jaxz on Apr 27 2011 08:46am
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Apr 27 2011 08:38am
Quote (Synonym @ Apr 27 2011 03:24pm)
feanur,
cb is affected by dr% and the spreadsheet for it is:

    * Normal monster: 1/4 Melee, 1/8 Ranged Attack.
    * Boss/Champion monster: 1/8 Melee, 1/16 Ranged Attack.
    * Player/Hireling: 1/10 Melee, 1/20 Ranged Attack.

it is not affected by players in game. check the basin again.

(...)


CB is affected by players in game, according to AmazonBasin. Check.



Quote (Synonym @ Apr 27 2011 03:24pm)
(...)

plus, you cannot predict random effects. period.
best you can do is come up with an unreal situation of the worst case scenario, hence all applicable occurrences are actually in favor of more cb strikes, and thus treachery becomes even more powerful.

(...)


The worst case scenario is : no CB ever applied (all failed).
But you shouldnt talk about scenarii, only average damages.
I propose you an exact method to calculate average CB damages.

Quote (Synonym @ Apr 27 2011 03:24pm)
(...)
your calculations about insight are probably wrong if you came up with fortitude on the higher up side, but im not going to check them.
edit: oh i see why, u didnt even take into account being decrepp'd and didn't make an avg wsm over 60 seconds.


They are correct, and I took decrep'd into account if you read my post carefully.
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Apr 27 2011 08:38am
Quote (Synonym @ Apr 27 2011 03:24pm)
feanur,
cb is affected by dr% and the spreadsheet for it is:

    * Normal monster: 1/4 Melee, 1/8 Ranged Attack.
    * Boss/Champion monster: 1/8 Melee, 1/16 Ranged Attack.
    * Player/Hireling: 1/10 Melee, 1/20 Ranged Attack.

it is not affected by players in game. check the basin again.


plus, you cannot predict random effects. period.
best you can do is come up with an unreal situation of the worst case scenario, hence all applicable occurrences are actually in favor of more cb strikes or earlier cb strikes, and thus treachery becomes even more powerful.

your calculations about insight are probably wrong if you came up with fortitude on the higher up side, but im not going to check them.
edit: oh i see why, u didnt even take into account being decrepp'd and didn't make an avg wsm over 60 seconds.


Synodim^^
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Apr 27 2011 08:52am
Reading this on my phone. Make it easy on me by letting me know situations where Fortitude is > Treachery on average in a short format?
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Apr 27 2011 08:54am
Quote (SABERSPAWN @ Apr 27 2011 05:52pm)
Reading this on my phone. Make it easy on me by letting me know situations where Fortitude is > Treachery on average in a short format?


unless you have a source a fanaticism, never.
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Apr 27 2011 08:57am
hm, nice guide. well written..

i vote it for sticky..

i have a request for you

since you have made all kind of merc guides.. pretty good.. i miss 1 guide..

the complete merc guide for each pvm chars.. with the best set up eq..
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Apr 27 2011 08:57am
Quote (Synonym @ 27 Apr 2011 09:54)
unless you have a source a fanaticism, never.


I figured that this was the case.
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Apr 27 2011 10:41am
Feanur's calculations, remarks and advises, are correct. (but you're not gonna check them right ? ^^)
And you don't include the probability a normal attack occuring over jab, different damages and different ias/bp. (I can point this out thanks to someone from another forum who lately did a helpful guide).

This topic could be interesting with all those corrections.
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