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Member
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Joined: Apr 24 2006
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Mar 6 2008 07:24am
Quote (Dragon_Reborn @ Thu, Mar 6 2008, 03:14am)
There must be some hidden factor, like you have to add this (haven't looked to much into that, so this is just speculation):
base damage * ( 1 + ee/100 ) * ( 1 + str/100 ) * 0.95



Theres no hidden fctor, ur doing ur math wrong, heres ur error "( 1 + str/100 ) * 0.95", first off, lets take that u have 0 in str and 0 in EE (I know u cant have 0 in str)
That means u will get BD*1*.95 huh.gif that means that u get lees dmg, lol.
Lets say u have 50 str, like my warrior, and again, 0 in EE, BD*1*1.425, u get some EE total, but still you arnt doing the math the right way.

The correct formula is as follows Total EE = (1 + EE/100)(1 + str*.009)
Now ur dmg (minDmg - maxDmg) (Total EE) = (minFinDmg - mxFinDmg)

Lets c how it works with my 20 EE +9 str Club

Total EE = (1 + 20/100)(1 + 59*.009) = (1.2)(1.531) = 1.8372
Now my dmg (6 - 27)(1.8372) = (11.0232 - 49.6044) rounded down of course (11 - 49)

Im using it right now, u can check it, dunno why u use .95 for the str as in the faq it says .9, but ur right about 36 str isnt equal to 35 EE, is more like 32.4% EE

U want a different formula to calculate it smile.gif

A = EE/100
B = str*.009

Total EE = 1 + A + B + AB

Hehehe, I like this one more, but u will get the same result, hope this helps lot around there, also, where it sys that each point into str equals to .95 in EE, where I checked it says .9

Forget about ur staff, first the one with 36 EE, well, it gets 1.36 Total EE, easy lol
the one wiht str in charm then is as follows Total EE = 1 + 0 + .324 + 0 = 1.324 (using formula 2 tongue.gif) try to check it with ur current dmg plz, later.
Member
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Joined: Jan 10 2006
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Mar 6 2008 07:27am
Quote (ragnaroks @ Thu, 6 Mar 2008, 13:58)
Go ask Paul this part:
"From adding 60 strength on your 50 base str fighter, you can in practice add 120 ee on your mq weapon. That is a big difference, from believing those 60 strength adds"

Impossible, if it was true, loads of people would do it, it increases 120 DAMAGE, thats XX% van of the perm link damage.

Going back to work, might discuss this later, just ask Paul to confirm it. tongue.gif (Don't send him a wall of text)


Exactly why I am making these guides, to show exactly how useful strength is!
If the base damage of the weapon is 100, perm link damage is 300 with 200ee, and you get a 40% overall damage increase from strength (as in case 3 above), that is 40% of 300, making your damage 420. How is not those 120 extra damage from strength equal to 120% extra ee? (120 extra damage, base damage is 100, therefore 120 extra ee)

I'm telling you I've tried this so many times with different setups..

example.
my lvl 50 club 234 ee has 563 damage with 50 strength
my lvl 50 club 234 ee has 761 damage with 101 strength
That is a 761/563 = 1.3516 ~ 35,2 % damage increase (agreeing so far?)

If I were to get those 1.3516 damage increase purily from ee, I would need to add alot of ee on my allready 234 ee.

How much ee do I need to make my 563 damage club make 761 damage?
761 dmg / ( 563 dmg / 3.34 ) = 761 / 563 * 3.34 = 4.515 ~ 351.5 ee ( had to substract 100 of course which was base)

In other words, those 51 strength equals 351.5 - 234 = 117.5 ee !

Why is this so hard to believe? I keep calculating the same results over and over again. When I add 51 strength, my club 234 ee rises in dmg from 563 to 761. If I wanted my lvl 50 club to do that kind of damage without adding strength, I would need 351.5 ee on it.

I see why this is useful, since so many people voted the downmost option.

Will pm paul about this, hopefully he will give a reply

_______________________

edit: ulizeus, you're not correct either. If the formula you used is correct, (1.324):

using on my staff with perm damage (17-46)
1.324 * (17-46) = 22.5-60.9
the actual damage I got while adding 36 strength = 21-57
the damage i get from using my formula = 21.08-57.04

As you can see, your formula is wrong, while mine fits better.

The hidden factor (in your formula it is multiplied with strength only) is not where you say, but rather somewhere else.
Strength is as I say.

If I used your formula on my lvl 50 club I would get this damage from adding 51 strength: 563 * ( 1 + 101 * 0.009 ) / ( 1 + 50 * 0.009 ) = 741
If I use my own formula I get: 563 * ( 1 + 101 * 0.01 ) / ( 1 + 50 * 0.01 ) = 754.2

754.2 is much closer to 761, and you must see from both examples that my formula fits better.

So the 0.009 or 0.9 if you like must be somewhere else in the formula than with strength. Actually it may not even exist at all.

Anyways, do you agree that those 51 strength, gives me in effect ~117ee?

Edit: I would also like to add that the whole part about comparing strength to enhanced effect is not correct at all. It is better to think that strength increases your overall damage by: ( 100 + new strength ) / ( 100 + old strength )

This post was edited by Dragon_Reborn on Mar 6 2008 07:43am
Member
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Mar 6 2008 07:47am
I am no math major,but I think that STR adds to the base damage and then the EE
adds on top of that.

100 damage + 25str=123.75 damage +50ee= 185.675 damage
100 damage + 50ee = 150 damage + 25str = 173.75 damage

I see a big difference in these if the STR adds to the base.So the STR does add .95 ,but it looks bigger with the EE added.
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Mar 6 2008 07:59am
Quote (MurderSetPieces @ Thu, 6 Mar 2008, 14:47)
I am no math major,but I think that STR adds to the base damage and then the EE
adds on top of that.

100 damage + 25str=123.75 damage +50ee= 185.675 damage
100 damage + 50ee = 150 damage + 25str = 173.75 damage

I see a big difference in these if the STR adds to the base.So the STR does add .95 ,but it looks bigger with the EE added.


This is exactly what I mean!
The strength adds to the base, and the ee adds then to both!
Or the ee adds to the base, and the strength adds to both.
Or at the least, they work in union with eachother. str can never be directly applied to a set ee ratio

But I do not believe that you multiply strength with 0.95 or a number less than 1. Because if that were the case, when I added 51 extra strength to my club, I wouldn't have gotten such high damage as 761.
Member
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Mar 6 2008 08:02am
Quote (Dragon_Reborn @ Thu, Mar 6 2008, 06:56am)
lvl 50 club 234 ee
101 strength
144 dex
14 lifesteal


My friend, If this is ur club, and it has 117 str, using .95 instead .9 gets u the dmg ur searching for, loo:

A = 2.34
B = 101*0.0095 = .9595

Total EE = 1 + 2.34 + .9595 + (2.34*.9595) = 3.24 + .9595 + 2.24523 = 6.54473

Then 117 * 6.54473 = 765.73341

Maybe the calculator always take 2 or 3 decimal digit only, and round dound, maybe that makes sometimes a 1 point more or less, but my formula get right into the number u c in ur club tongue.gif.
Member
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Mar 6 2008 08:04am
Could you get the club ID?
Member
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Mar 6 2008 08:04am
Quote (Dragon_Reborn @ Thu, Mar 6 2008, 08:59am)
This is exactly what I mean!
The strength adds to the base, and the ee adds then to both!
Or the ee adds to the base, and the strength adds to both.
Or at the least, they work in union with eachother. str can never be directly applied to a set ee ratio

But I do not believe that you multiply strength with 0.95 or a number less than 1. Because if that were the case, when I added  51 extra strength to my club, I wouldn't have gotten such high damage as 761.


Yes that's why I would go for the weapon with 25STR +50 EE
and not the 75 EE weapon,because the 25 STR 50 EE weapon will do more damage.
Member
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Mar 6 2008 08:13am
My friend ulizeus. I see what you are trying to do there, and I appreciate it.
Only problem is my club, nor my character, does not have 117 str, or any number associated with 117 sad.gif
Also in your formula you are looking for total EE. In my opinion there is no total ee. only total damage, which is a product of tier level (base damage) ee and strength.

eekzie, LS Item Purchase 2147502

MurderSetPieces, I don't believe that 50 ee on your weapon is enough to start thinking that strength is better than ee. remember that your fighter allready has 50 strength, so your total strength with 25STR +50 EE , will be 75.
So I believe that on a fighter with base strength, 25STR +50 EE is about as good as the 75 EE weapon. However if you start getting 100ee or beyond or your weapon, strength will become more beneficial
Member
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Mar 6 2008 08:32am
Quote (Dragon_Reborn @ Thu, Mar 6 2008, 07:59am)
This is exactly what I mean!
The strength adds to the base, and the ee adds then to both!
Or the ee adds to the base, and the strength adds to both.
Or at the least, they work in union with eachother. str can never be directly applied to a set ee ratio

But I do not believe that you multiply strength with 0.95 or a number less than 1. Because if that were the case, when I added  51 extra strength to my club, I wouldn't have gotten such high damage as 761.


U want to know the "factor" in ur club, well is easy if ur final dmg is 761, then:

Using formula 2 B = (Finaldmg/( BD * ( 1 + A ))) -1 = (761/(BD*3.34)) - 1 , if ur Base Dmg is 117, then

(761 / 390.78) - 1 = .93652694611 and I said that B = str*strfact, so

strfact = B/str = 927254402089

but tha dmg in ur wep can be 761.999..., that is almost 672

so for Finaldmg = 762, strfact = .940540852792

Whatever value u choose between those 2 numbers, will result in a number between 761-762 (using my formula of course), that rounded down will be 761 always, we will need lots of cases to determine that factor without the help of the person that did the code tongue.gif.

Code
                     Level      Swords        Axes          Daggers
Weapon Quality        Required   Base Damage   Base Damage   Base Damage
(I)    Rusted         0          1-10          5-6           4-7
(II)   Copper         0          2-20          10-12         8-14
(III)  Bronze         0          3-30          15-18         12-21
(IV)   Iron           5          4-40          20-24         16-28
(V)    Steel          10         5-50          25-30         20-35
(VI)   Alloy          15         6-60          30-36         24-42
(VII)  Fine Alloy     20         7-70          35-42         28-49
(VIII) Mithril        25         8-80          40-48         32-56
(IX)   Sapphire       30         9-90          45-54         36-63
(X)    Adamantium     35         10-100        50-60         40-70
(XI)   Diamond        40         11-110        55-66         44-77
(XII)  Tempered-      45         12-120        60-72         48-84
      Diamond
(XIII) Tintitanium    50         13-130        65-78         52-91
(XIV)  Ultimanium     55         14-140        70-84         56-98
________________________________________________________________________
                     Level      Clubs         Staffs
Weapon Quality        Required   Base Damage   Base Damage
(I)    Splintered     0          2-9           3-8
(II)   Pine           0          4-18          6-16
(III)  Elm            0          6-27          9-24
(IV)   Oak            5          8-36          12-32
(V)    Ironwood       10         10-45         15-40
(VI)   Heartwood      15         12-54         18-48
(VII)  Runewood       20         14-63         21-56
(VIII) Stonewood      25         16-72         24-64
(IX)   Ebonwood       30         18-81         27-72
(X)    Drywood        35         20-90         30-80
(XI)   Darkwood       40         22-99         33-88
(XII)  Steelwood      45         24-108        36-96
(XIII) Angelwood      50         26-117        39-104
(XIV)  Godwood        55         28-126        42-122


The Angelwood club is the only club lvl 50, and it has 117 max dmg, taked this code from ragnaroks Item Mechanics Guide

This post was edited by Ulizeus on Mar 6 2008 08:39am
Member
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Mar 6 2008 09:01am
this adds a huge advantage to godly geared players (weapons with 150+ee)
and thats why strenght isnt common for random ls players using ~50ee weapons
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