Quote (gel87 @ Jul 2 2022 05:58pm)

Well, the 2 handed frames per direction is 9, so 51 eias break for 5fpa.
Do you know if there is a Maximum cap at skill slow%?
Also, thanks for letting me know the bottom cap for eias :) i would assume its -85 as well if that is the general one :)

And also, the -1 on attack is to average it out(smoothen out the animation). Maby that was what blizzard ment in patch notes? :p

Quote (babun1024 @ Jul 2 2022 02:57pm)

I am testing and already big find:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZnOjKbgE3s
Set youtube playback speed to 0.25 and go to 3rd second. WW does double hitcheck for 2 weapons at frame 4 now! The setup is 2x BA socketed with a Ral rune for fire damage to track as visiual indicator. You see two monsters hit as soon as I start a WW.

For now:
3.5fpa attack rate for 0 ias
3fpa attack rate for 2 ias

Quote (Vileinfected @ Jul 3 2022 03:37am)

That was already explained in the patch notes, you target 2 monsters with 2 weapons at the start.
The only thing this patch did, was buff other classes vs barb in duels, and inadvertently buffed ww sins. It didn't help barbs at all (this is only in reference to the IAS changes made.)

Quote (babun1024 @ Jul 3 2022 06:10am)

First, nothing against you, it's easy to say in the aftermath I told you so. Blizzard lies all the time. We tested and confirmed the changes. You did nothing except for this:https://i.imgflip.com/6ln5ht.jpg

Second, let's not lie in bitterness. Prepatch, you needed long WWs to make sure your hits connected. Leap stun was crap, you couldn't hit chars with WW before they teleported away, notably ele druids. Then druids and necros can have a full zoo/ minions around them. The new mechanic allows you to land 4 hits instead of 2 within the first 9 frames. So say previous to patch you made a 12.5fpa WW (half a second) you missed probably hits at 4fpa and 8fpa then started doing dmg half a second later all the while being open for retailation. In 2.4.3, you can tri WW instantly after you land and stun with leap. You can leap to stun again without after a 9fpa WW landing 4hits in 0.36 seconds. Holy freeze or decrepify slowes you down but unlike 2.4 you don't hit 6fpa but the new odd 5fpa. Still good enough to kill people even with holy freeze or decrepify.
Overall, Grief Ba+Beast Ba combo has been buffed so stop whining and git good.

Quote (Vileinfected @ 3 Jul 2022 14:10)

I don't know what you think I was trying to say other than the ias changes were bad, because that is all I said. Holy freeze and Decrep will absolutely effect long WW's, unless you have other sources of ias. Decrep nullifying 50% of ias is huge, and anything from level 7-12 holy freeze is 45 - 50 ias (more if plus skills). I don't know how this is a buff to the original BiS for barbs. Because ORIGINALLY you didn't need extra ias from gear to maintain ww. The only change that was a buff was the first hit change, and the 2 weapons change. Which should have been present to begin with, so instead of being where we were, were still not as good.

An overall nerf. GIT GUD though my guy.

Since were just being facetious now.

Quote (Ognadibik @ Jul 3 2022 08:41am)

What you said is that this patch buffed other classes vs barb in duels
Very likely the dumbest post in the thread, gz

Quote (Dazer_Boosting @ Jul 3 2022 05:36pm)

:wacko: iso short version for sin ww please, if possible similar to the old notes. :hail:

Thats was before the patch:

WSM - Weapon Speed Modifier
AWSM - Average Weapon Speed Modifier
MWSM - Modified Weapon Speed Modifier
FPA - Frames Per Animation

_________________________________

Claws and their WSM

War Fist = [10]
(Scissors) Suwayyah = [0]
Battle Cestus / Wrist Sword = [-10]
Feral Claws = [-20]
Greater Talons / Runic Talons = [-30]

WW BP

We want our 4 fpa ww hitchecks which will be achieved at a MWSM of [-13]. It is simply calculated for each claw seperately by this formula: (WSM - [claw's IAS amount])
Since runic talons [-30] and feral claws [-20] already fulfill the [-13] MWSM condition, they don't need any additional ias. A suwayyah [0] would need at least 15 ias and a war fist [10] 25 ias.

Quote (babun1024 @ Jul 2 2022 11:48pm)

First thing first, WW on a sin is still hard capped 4fpa or 2fpa on two targets, no matter how high BoS and ias is pushed (@gel87).
Chaos Suwayyah + 0 ias Suwayyah:
6fpa without BoS and no ias from gear
5fpa without BoS and 3ias from gear
4fpa without BoS and 45ias from gear

I have to say the behaviour is exactly like WW table on a barb except you have to look at base speeds from Sin's perspective. Suwayyah is a WSM 0 weapon when used by a SIN so the formula counts as:

WW BP= EIAS + skill IAS - (avgWSM) where
EIAS = 120*(avgIAS+gearIAS)/(120+avgIAS+gearIAS)
avgIAS = (IAS on claw1 + IAS on claw2)/2
Skill IAS = ias directly added from fanatism or burst of speed
avgWSM = (WSM weapon1 + WSM weapon2)/2

Breakpoints for WW BP are located at:
You get 6fpa at default even with the slowest claws
17 for 5fpa BP
41 for 4fpa BP

Example: Chaos Suwayyah + rare Suwayyah with 20ias on it and level 1 BoS and 20ias gloves
avgIAS = (IAS on claw1 + IAS on claw2)/2 = (35 + 20)/2 = 27.5
EIAS = 120*(27.5+20 (gloves))/(120+27.5+20(from gloves)) = 34
avgWSM = (WSM weapon1 + WSM weapon2)/2 = (0 + 0)/2 = 0
Skill IAS = ias directly added from fanatism or burst of speed = 21 (level 1 burst of speed)

WW BP= EIAS + skill IAS - (avgWSM) = 34 +21-(0) = 55 > 41 then you're well over 4fpa BP

Quote (Vileinfected @ 3 Jul 2022 16:09)

It did though, lol.

If you account for long ww of old vs now. lol the only game barb has now is short game.