My gosh. Are you reading what I wrote or you just comply yourself reading yourself and the Bible quotes you bring here ?

No, I read what you said.

But what I know is that you are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH! and to receive your righteousness and get into heaven you must HAVE FAITH that you were saved by him and justified by his blood.

What I posted has everything to do with what you said.

and I awnsered you back saying that its not the faith who saved you but how you accomplish God's will in your life.
Its clearly states in Matthew chap 7:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Read my post #73 before yelling at the top of your mountain bro

Why do you take one verse and pin it against the entire bible?
Take the Bible as a whole, not one verse.

I'm curious, do you even know what God's will is?

Read Mt 25 and you have your awnser

Your question sounds arrongant bro.

Let's tone this down a bit guys.

First of all, there is some confusion (as there always is) vs. non-Catholics and Catholics with regards to this subject. They are not praying TO Mary, they are using her as an intercessory for their prayers. A good analogy is if you call a friend or email them or message them on facebook or ask in church for them to pray for you, on your behalf. You are not praying to them, you are asking them to join with your prayers to God on your behalf. The "praying to the saints" is the same thing, they are asking for heavenly bodies to pray on their behalf for them, much the same as conversely one would ask earthly bodies to do the same. Please make sure that this is what you're actually debating, because this is what Catholics are actually doing, whether nekrotic is explaining it as such or not.

Secondly, faith without works is dead. This faith only nonsense is a load of tripe, and even some of your own quotes illustrate that Rushton. For instance:


In actuality, his belief was demonstrated by his actions. It wasn't merely his belief that led God to call him righteous, it was his act of obedience that proved his belief (specifically in this case, him willing to offer his son in sacrifice, and then later the circumcision mandate). When you have faith in Christ, you are naturally transformed to be more Christ-like, and wish to behave more like Christ. If you do not have this desire, you are not truly alive in Christ, and your faith is probably flimsy or not really there as you think it is. However, everyone is in different places in their journey with Christ, so some may be farther along this path than others, so it is impossible to judge these things about another person, which is why we're told not to judge others, especially with regards to their salvation.

You cannot obtain salvation without faith, and through faith will stem action and obedience. However, the actions taken would always be from a humble standpoint, of which you could not boast of. Likewise, without faith, said actions are futile (selfish), as they are not in Christ and for God, and would not grant you salvation.

Amen. Previously in this thread I stated the fact that Mary (and the Saints) are intercessors. No different than asking for prayers at your church. The statements in here seem to put Mary as Savior though.

To echo your faith is nothing without works -

Thats exactly what I try to tell since few pages. Mary is not the savior but a poweful intercessor. I though my wordas were quit clear about it but obviously its seems not since people continue to accuse me to put the Virgin Mary at the same level of an Idol. Actually an Idol means nothing than a replacement to God wich is not the case with Mary. Mary didnt bring salvation in this world but will bring you to the salvation of her son Jesus. Thats what we do in Catholic. If its still not clear, just ask again and I will try to make my thoughts more clear. I also use this web site to improve my english writting by the way so thanks for your patience

Yes, I know faith without works is dead.
Thank you for bringing that up.



Why do you think you have to go through Mary to have your prayers come true?
Praying to Mary doesn't mean your prayers will be answered. Infact if you disbelieve and don't have faith your prayers won't even be heard by heaven at all.

Just as long as your a Christian and you believe and have faith, God will answer your prayers. There is no need to pray through Mary.

Mary has no more favor than you or me..
Like I've said a thousand times "God is no respector of persons."
Mary has no more grace from God or favor from God than you or me can have. Pray with faith, believe and receive.

All this religion likes to pile all these rules and regulations on that you don't need and God never said to do.

This post was edited by Rushton on Jul 10 2012 12:32pm