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Jul 28 2012 06:08pm
Quote (duffman316 @ 28 Jul 2012 02:03)
tbh it's no worse than the bible, it's just that the guy the muslims worship (while they claim not to worship him) happens to be a warmongering pedophile as opposed to some sissy who got nailed to a cross

Quote (poulgaragr @ 28 Jul 2012 12:35)
As I say in the Video, try and find me a single contradiction/error in it.

AND DO US A FAVOUR: RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING YOUR SPAM

I hope I made enough research for both of you.

Well, Pedophile was not defined nor a problem on the old days. Children were exposed to sexual act on a young age until 300 years ago. Childhood is a new perception of life and the first one who discussed it was john Locke (also known as the father of liberalism) in the 17th century.
and thanks to him we are exposed to things that fits our age more slowly so we won't grow bitter and frustrated (And its not thanks to Muhammad).
Therefore Muhammad can not be accused of being a Pedophile yet he can be accused for being a warmonger and if we would live the Islam way on the present we all were bitter and frustrated not just from what we define as Pedophile. but, from a lot of other nasty things like:
Stoning as a punishment for almost everything, including a rape of women (the woman get stoned to death), 6 Muslim Countries Inflict Death by Stoning: Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, and Nigeria.
Cutting off arms of theft's, (http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/25/168627.html, http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=136791)
Being slaves, Taking of slaves as spoils of war just like in the old days. "Muslims were enslaving black Africans long before any slave ships sailed for the New World" (http://answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm).
Lack of freedom, does this need explanation?
No Rights...
Doesn't respect anything other then Muslims "do not give the greetings of peace first to the Jew or Christian."

In conclusion. you can not convince a man who was born into Islam that he is wrong, and, even if you try you most likely find yourself dead.
The Allegory of the Cave Plato...
Inside the cave
In Plato's fictional dialogued, Socrates begins by describing a scenario in which what people take to be real would in fact be an illusion. He asks Glaucon to imagine a cave inhabited by prisoners who have been chained and held immobile since childhood: not only are their arms and legs held in place, but their heads are also fixed, compelled to gaze at a wall in front of them. Behind the prisoners is an enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners is a raised walkway, along which people walk carrying things on their heads "including figures of men and animals made of wood, stone and other materials". The prisoners watch the shadows cast by the men, not knowing they are shadows. There are also echoes off the wall from the noise produced from the walkway.
Socrates suggests the prisoners would take the shadows to be real things and the echoes to be real sounds, not just reflections of reality, since they are all they had ever seen or heard. They would praise as clever, whoever could best guess which shadow would come next, as someone who understood the nature of the world, and the whole of their society would depend on the shadows on the wall.
Release from the cave
Socrates then supposes that a prisoner is freed and permitted to stand up. If someone were to show him the things that had cast the shadows, he would not recognize them for what they were and could not name them; he would believe the shadows on the wall to be more real than what he sees.
"Suppose further," Socrates says, "that the man was compelled to look at the fire: wouldn't he be struck blind and try to turn his gaze back toward the shadows, as toward what he can see clearly and hold to be real? What if someone forcibly dragged such a man upward, out of the cave: wouldn't the man be angry at the one doing this to him? And if dragged all the way out into the sunlight, wouldn't he be distressed and unable to see "even one of the things now said to be true," viz. the shadows on the wall?
After some time on the surface, however, the freed prisoner would acclimate. He would see more and more things around him, until he could look upon the Sun. He would understand that the Sun is the "source of the seasons and the years, and is the steward of all things in the visible place, and is in a certain way the cause of all those things he and his companions had been seeing"
Return to the cave
Socrates next asks Glaucon to consider the condition of this man. "Wouldn't he remember his first home, what passed for wisdom there, and his fellow prisoners, and consider himself happy and them pitiable? And wouldn't he disdain whatever honors, praises, and prizes were awarded there to the ones who guessed best which shadows followed which? Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? Wouldn't it be said of him that he went up and came back with his eyes corrupted, and that it's not even worth trying to go up? And if they were somehow able to get their hands on and kill the man who attempts to release and lead them up, wouldn't they kill him?" The prisoners, ignorant of the world behind them, would see the freed man with his corrupted eyes and be afraid of anything but what they already know. Philosophers analyzing the allegory argue that the prisoners would ironically find the freed man stupid due to the current state of his eyes and temporarily not being able to see the shadows which are the world to the prisoners.

As Muhammad developed Islam 1400 years ago (7th Century) he borrowed from the other regional religions present in the Mideast. These religions include Judaism, Christianity, Sabeanism, Zoroastrianism, and forms of paganism. Judaism is the largest contributor to Islam and exist around 5000 years, followed by Christianity which we all know how long it exists :), then followed by the various pagan religions, and Muhammad’s mind. These pagan borrowings constitute significant facets of Islam. (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_differences_between_Judaism_Christianity_and_Islam)

Example:
The Kaba is now the most revered sanctuary of Islam. It is located in Mecca. Muslims throughout the world direct their prayers toward the Kaba. (Just like the Jews does towards Jerusalem).

Apart from Muslim myths, little is really known about the history of the Kaba. About 60 years before Christ, the Roman historian Diodorus Siculus commented that there was in Arabia a temple greatly revered by the Arabs. It is probable that he had the Kaba in mind. It was later mentioned to have existed in the 2nd century; Ptolemy, the geographer mentions it in his work, calling it the 'macoraba'. The Kaba was a sanctuary dedicated to one or more pagan deities. The accounts of the campaigns of Abraha note that it was a place of pagan worship in the 6th century. Information on the distribution of the offices among the sons of Kusayy show that the worship of the sanctuary had developed into a regulated cult several generations before Muhammad. One historian (Hurgronjes) said that sacred worship may have developed around the area because the Zamzam spring was found in this waterless place. Pre-Islamic history tells us that many Arabian tribes were stone worshippers. This is also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol 5, #661 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahih_al-Bukhari. The Old Testament even talks about Mideast pagan groups that worshipped stones. Muhammad incorporated the Kaba's paganistic roots into Islam to give the Muslims a sense of identity, legitimacy, and uniqueness. He also wanted to ease the Arab's strain of moving from paganism to Islam, by continuing the practices of their fathers.

In other words Islam is Paganism in Monotheistic Wrapping Paper. and therefore there is no reason to contradict it as it is clearly fictional and easily proven to be.
So for me finding contradictions in Islam is simply finding Contradictions in Lord of the Rings Movie

This post was edited by Many_Names on Jul 28 2012 06:21pm
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Jul 28 2012 07:25pm
Quote (Many_Names @ Jul 28 2012 06:08pm)
I hope I made enough research for both of you.

Well, Pedophile was not defined nor a problem on the old days. Children were exposed to sexual act on a young age until 300 years ago. Childhood is a new perception of life and the first one who discussed it was john Locke (also known as the father of liberalism) in the 17th century.
and thanks to him we are exposed to things that fits our age more slowly so we won't grow bitter and frustrated (And its not thanks to Muhammad).
Therefore Muhammad can not be accused of being a Pedophile yet he can be accused for being a warmonger and if we would live the Islam way on the present we all were bitter and frustrated not just from what we define as Pedophile. but, from a lot of other nasty things like:
Stoning as a punishment for almost everything, including a rape of women (the woman get stoned to death), 6 Muslim Countries Inflict Death by Stoning: Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, and Nigeria.
Cutting off arms of theft's, (http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/25/168627.html, http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=136791)
Being slaves, Taking of slaves as spoils of war just like in the old days. "Muslims were enslaving black Africans long before any slave ships sailed for the New World" (http://answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm).
Lack of freedom, does this need explanation?
No Rights...
Doesn't respect anything other then Muslims  "do not give the greetings of peace first to the Jew or Christian." 

In conclusion. you can not convince a man who was born into Islam that he is wrong, and, even if you try you most likely find yourself dead.
The Allegory of the Cave Plato...
Inside the cave
In Plato's fictional dialogued, Socrates begins by describing a scenario in which what people take to be real would in fact be an illusion. He asks Glaucon to imagine a cave inhabited by prisoners who have been chained and held immobile since childhood: not only are their arms and legs held in place, but their heads are also fixed, compelled to gaze at a wall in front of them. Behind the prisoners is an enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners is a raised walkway, along which people walk carrying things on their heads "including figures of men and animals made of wood, stone and other materials". The prisoners watch the shadows cast by the men, not knowing they are shadows. There are also echoes off the wall from the noise produced from the walkway. 
Socrates suggests the prisoners would take the shadows to be real things and the echoes to be real sounds, not just reflections of reality, since they are all they had ever seen or heard. They would praise as clever, whoever could best guess which shadow would come next, as someone who understood the nature of the world, and the whole of their society would depend on the shadows on the wall.
Release from the cave
Socrates then supposes that a prisoner is freed and permitted to stand up. If someone were to show him the things that had cast the shadows, he would not recognize them for what they were and could not name them; he would believe the shadows on the wall to be more real than what he sees.
"Suppose further," Socrates says, "that the man was compelled to look at the fire: wouldn't he be struck blind and try to turn his gaze back toward the shadows, as toward what he can see clearly and hold to be real? What if someone forcibly dragged such a man upward, out of the cave: wouldn't the man be angry at the one doing this to him? And if dragged all the way out into the sunlight, wouldn't he be distressed and unable to see "even one of the things now said to be true," viz. the shadows on the wall?
After some time on the surface, however, the freed prisoner would acclimate. He would see more and more things around him, until he could look upon the Sun. He would understand that the Sun is the "source of the seasons and the years, and is the steward of all things in the visible place, and is in a certain way the cause of all those things he and his companions had been seeing"
Return to the cave
Socrates next asks Glaucon to consider the condition of this man. "Wouldn't he remember his first home, what passed for wisdom there, and his fellow prisoners, and consider himself happy and them pitiable? And wouldn't he disdain whatever honors, praises, and prizes were awarded there to the ones who guessed best which shadows followed which? Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? Wouldn't it be said of him that he went up and came back with his eyes corrupted, and that it's not even worth trying to go up? And if they were somehow able to get their hands on and kill the man who attempts to release and lead them up, wouldn't they kill him?" The prisoners, ignorant of the world behind them, would see the freed man with his corrupted eyes and be afraid of anything but what they already know. Philosophers analyzing the allegory argue that the prisoners would ironically find the freed man stupid due to the current state of his eyes and temporarily not being able to see the shadows which are the world to the prisoners.

As Muhammad developed Islam 1400 years ago (7th Century) he borrowed from the other regional religions present in the Mideast. These religions include Judaism, Christianity, Sabeanism, Zoroastrianism, and forms of paganism. Judaism is the largest contributor to Islam and exist around 5000 years, followed by Christianity which we all know how long it exists :), then followed by the various pagan religions, and Muhammad’s mind.  These pagan borrowings constitute significant facets of Islam. (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What%5Fare%5Fsome%5Fdifferences%5Fbetween%5FJudaism%5FChristianity%5Fand%5FIslam)

Example:
The Kaba is now the most revered sanctuary of Islam.  It is located in Mecca.  Muslims throughout the world direct their prayers toward the Kaba. (Just like the Jews does towards Jerusalem).

Apart from Muslim myths, little is really known about the history of the Kaba.  About 60 years before Christ, the Roman historian Diodorus Siculus commented that there was in Arabia a temple greatly revered by the Arabs.  It is probable that he had the Kaba in mind.  It was later mentioned to have existed in the 2nd century; Ptolemy, the geographer mentions it in his work, calling it the 'macoraba'.  The Kaba was a sanctuary dedicated to one or more pagan deities.  The accounts of the campaigns of Abraha note that it was a place of pagan worship in the 6th century.  Information on the distribution of the offices among the sons of Kusayy show that the worship of the sanctuary had developed into a regulated cult several generations before Muhammad. One historian (Hurgronjes) said that sacred worship may have developed around the area because the Zamzam spring was found in this waterless place. Pre-Islamic history tells us that many Arabian tribes were stone worshippers. This is also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol 5, #661 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahih%5Fal-Bukhari.  The Old Testament even talks about Mideast pagan groups that worshipped stones. Muhammad incorporated the Kaba's paganistic roots into Islam to give the Muslims a sense of identity, legitimacy, and uniqueness. He also wanted to ease the Arab's strain of moving from paganism to Islam, by continuing the practices of their fathers.

In other words Islam is Paganism in Monotheistic Wrapping Paper. and therefore there is no reason to contradict it as it is clearly fictional and easily proven to be.
So for me finding contradictions in Islam is simply finding Contradictions in Lord of the Rings Movie


The only claim as to if Islam is 'paganism in monotheistic wrapping paper' is your claim that the Kaaba was a Pagan temple. Which is no evidence that Islam itself is what you say it is. They could have conquered it and changed it into a Muslim temple, which they almost certainly did. I suggest you read the Qur'an before making such a wild statement.
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Jul 29 2012 05:04am
Quote (Many_Names @ Jul 29 2012 12:08am)
I hope I made enough research for both of you.

Well, Pedophile was not defined nor a problem on the old days. Children were exposed to sexual act on a young age until 300 years ago. Childhood is a new perception of life and the first one who discussed it was john Locke (also known as the father of liberalism) in the 17th century.
and thanks to him we are exposed to things that fits our age more slowly so we won't grow bitter and frustrated (And its not thanks to Muhammad).
Therefore Muhammad can not be accused of being a Pedophile yet he can be accused for being a warmonger and if we would live the Islam way on the present we all were bitter and frustrated not just from what we define as Pedophile. but, from a lot of other nasty things like:
Stoning as a punishment for almost everything, including a rape of women (the woman get stoned to death), 6 Muslim Countries Inflict Death by Stoning: Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, and Nigeria.
Cutting off arms of theft's, (http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/25/168627.html, http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=136791)
Being slaves, Taking of slaves as spoils of war just like in the old days. "Muslims were enslaving black Africans long before any slave ships sailed for the New World" (http://answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm).
Lack of freedom, does this need explanation?
No Rights...
Doesn't respect anything other then Muslims  "do not give the greetings of peace first to the Jew or Christian." 

In conclusion. you can not convince a man who was born into Islam that he is wrong, and, even if you try you most likely find yourself dead.
The Allegory of the Cave Plato...
Inside the cave
In Plato's fictional dialogued, Socrates begins by describing a scenario in which what people take to be real would in fact be an illusion. He asks Glaucon to imagine a cave inhabited by prisoners who have been chained and held immobile since childhood: not only are their arms and legs held in place, but their heads are also fixed, compelled to gaze at a wall in front of them. Behind the prisoners is an enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners is a raised walkway, along which people walk carrying things on their heads "including figures of men and animals made of wood, stone and other materials". The prisoners watch the shadows cast by the men, not knowing they are shadows. There are also echoes off the wall from the noise produced from the walkway. 
Socrates suggests the prisoners would take the shadows to be real things and the echoes to be real sounds, not just reflections of reality, since they are all they had ever seen or heard. They would praise as clever, whoever could best guess which shadow would come next, as someone who understood the nature of the world, and the whole of their society would depend on the shadows on the wall.
Release from the cave
Socrates then supposes that a prisoner is freed and permitted to stand up. If someone were to show him the things that had cast the shadows, he would not recognize them for what they were and could not name them; he would believe the shadows on the wall to be more real than what he sees.
"Suppose further," Socrates says, "that the man was compelled to look at the fire: wouldn't he be struck blind and try to turn his gaze back toward the shadows, as toward what he can see clearly and hold to be real? What if someone forcibly dragged such a man upward, out of the cave: wouldn't the man be angry at the one doing this to him? And if dragged all the way out into the sunlight, wouldn't he be distressed and unable to see "even one of the things now said to be true," viz. the shadows on the wall?
After some time on the surface, however, the freed prisoner would acclimate. He would see more and more things around him, until he could look upon the Sun. He would understand that the Sun is the "source of the seasons and the years, and is the steward of all things in the visible place, and is in a certain way the cause of all those things he and his companions had been seeing"
Return to the cave
Socrates next asks Glaucon to consider the condition of this man. "Wouldn't he remember his first home, what passed for wisdom there, and his fellow prisoners, and consider himself happy and them pitiable? And wouldn't he disdain whatever honors, praises, and prizes were awarded there to the ones who guessed best which shadows followed which? Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? Wouldn't it be said of him that he went up and came back with his eyes corrupted, and that it's not even worth trying to go up? And if they were somehow able to get their hands on and kill the man who attempts to release and lead them up, wouldn't they kill him?" The prisoners, ignorant of the world behind them, would see the freed man with his corrupted eyes and be afraid of anything but what they already know. Philosophers analyzing the allegory argue that the prisoners would ironically find the freed man stupid due to the current state of his eyes and temporarily not being able to see the shadows which are the world to the prisoners.

As Muhammad developed Islam 1400 years ago (7th Century) he borrowed from the other regional religions present in the Mideast. These religions include Judaism, Christianity, Sabeanism, Zoroastrianism, and forms of paganism. Judaism is the largest contributor to Islam and exist around 5000 years, followed by Christianity which we all know how long it exists :), then followed by the various pagan religions, and Muhammad’s mind.  These pagan borrowings constitute significant facets of Islam. (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_differences_between_Judaism_Christianity_and_Islam)

Example:
The Kaba is now the most revered sanctuary of Islam.  It is located in Mecca.  Muslims throughout the world direct their prayers toward the Kaba. (Just like the Jews does towards Jerusalem).

Apart from Muslim myths, little is really known about the history of the Kaba.  About 60 years before Christ, the Roman historian Diodorus Siculus commented that there was in Arabia a temple greatly revered by the Arabs.  It is probable that he had the Kaba in mind.  It was later mentioned to have existed in the 2nd century; Ptolemy, the geographer mentions it in his work, calling it the 'macoraba'.  The Kaba was a sanctuary dedicated to one or more pagan deities.  The accounts of the campaigns of Abraha note that it was a place of pagan worship in the 6th century.  Information on the distribution of the offices among the sons of Kusayy show that the worship of the sanctuary had developed into a regulated cult several generations before Muhammad. One historian (Hurgronjes) said that sacred worship may have developed around the area because the Zamzam spring was found in this waterless place. Pre-Islamic history tells us that many Arabian tribes were stone worshippers. This is also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol 5, #661 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahih_al-Bukhari.  The Old Testament even talks about Mideast pagan groups that worshipped stones. Muhammad incorporated the Kaba's paganistic roots into Islam to give the Muslims a sense of identity, legitimacy, and uniqueness. He also wanted to ease the Arab's strain of moving from paganism to Islam, by continuing the practices of their fathers.

In other words Islam is Paganism in Monotheistic Wrapping Paper. and therefore there is no reason to contradict it as it is clearly fictional and easily proven to be.
So for me finding contradictions in Islam is simply finding Contradictions in Lord of the Rings Movie


Biggest pile of lies put together - lol

Rebuttals:

#1: Islam is the ONLY TRUE RELIGION of ALL THE HOLY PROPHETS, as the word itself (ISLAM) means SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD

#2: As I previously stated hundreds of times before (but, being a HYPOCRITE, you CHOOSE TO IGNORE ANYWAY), Aesha was NOT 6/9 years old when she got married

#3: You have answered NONE of the challenges I gave from THE VERY START OF THIS THREAD

Maybe better luck next time (when you come to your senses and MAYBE realise how wrong you are and say the Shahada)

This post was edited by poulgaragr on Jul 29 2012 05:08am
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Jul 29 2012 05:18am
Quote (poulgaragr @ Jul 29 2012 07:04am)

Rebuttals:

#1: Islam is the ONLY TRUE RELIGION of ALL THE HOLY PROPHETS, as the word itself (ISLAM) means SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD



Damn, fantastic use of logic, I am stumped. You win, I concede.

If only I could create a religion named after a word that means "poulgaragr is always right" I could know the truth.
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Aug 1 2012 08:55am
Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 29 2012 11:18am)
Damn, fantastic use of logic, I am stumped. You win, I concede.

If only I could create a religion named after a word that means "poulgaragr is always right" I could know the truth.


What's the matter, AW? Can't refute a SINGLE challenge from the Qur'an (as expected, of course), so you turn to sarcasm and personal attacks?

tsk tsk... :rofl:
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Aug 1 2012 09:46am
Quote (poulgaragr @ Aug 1 2012 02:55pm)
What's the matter, AW? Can't refute a SINGLE challenge from the Qur'an (as expected, of course), so you turn to sarcasm and personal attacks?

tsk tsk... :rofl:


and this is why religion can be harmful to the mind :o
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Aug 1 2012 09:58am
Quote (poulgaragr @ Aug 1 2012 10:55am)
What's the matter, AW? Can't refute a SINGLE challenge from the Qur'an (as expected, of course), so you turn to sarcasm and personal attacks?

tsk tsk... :rofl:

You mean your single challenge from the Qur'an wasn't itself sarcasm? Because it sure looked like it was silly enough to be sarcasm. Just because a book asserts that its contents are true does not make it true.
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Aug 1 2012 10:31am
Quote (poulgaragr @ Aug 1 2012 09:55am)
What's the matter, AW? Can't refute a SINGLE challenge from the Qur'an (as expected, of course), so you turn to sarcasm and personal attacks?

tsk tsk... :rofl:


I think your religion has made you retarded. I'm truly sorry.
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Aug 6 2012 04:52am
Quote (duffman316 @ Aug 1 2012 03:46pm)
and this is why religion can be harmful to the mind :o


In the case of christianity/Judaism/etc, yes, not Islam

Quote (bentherdonethat @ Aug 1 2012 03:58pm)
You mean your single challenge from the Qur'an wasn't itself sarcasm? Because it sure looked like it was silly enough to be sarcasm. Just because a book asserts that its contents are true does not make it true.


My challenges are in order to make people think and recognize the TRUTH, since NONE OF YOU CAN EVER EVEN DREAM OF REFUTING ONE SINGLE POINT, AND YOU NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO. CASE CLOSED!!!

Quote (topman @ Aug 1 2012 04:31pm)
I think your religion has made you retarded. I'm truly sorry.


I think you deserve to be reported. Oops, I already did :rofl:
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Aug 6 2012 04:53am
I'm really tempted to get this thread locked.
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